Im getting back into Grade 5 theory (very very slowly but surely !!!) by reading a book with questions and answers in it and come across question which involve tenor and alto (?) clefs which cello (etc) players use.Its irrelavant to me as im a pianist and no nothing of these other instruments,so do i still have to answer them as part of the Grade 5 theory exams ?

If you want the marks, you have to answer the questions.

Do flautists, who never use bass clef, have to answer the bass clef questions? Only if they want to pass the exam.

Also if you are a pianist it is important to understand these clefs as, you never know, you might accompany a viola player or a cellist and this will help you understand their music. It also helps to keep them in tune if you can transpose their music and play along with them.

And it's not as though you need to fluent in them.
As long as you understand what the clef is telling you then you have time in the exam to count the lines and spaces to work out the notes.

Would a violist be excused questions on the treble clef? Would a flautist be excused questions on the bass clef?

No, you don't have to answer them if you don't want to pass the exam...

Huh! With all the carryings on about these clefs maybe we should revert to the Great Stave.

The AB loves examining on weird things like figured bass so this would give their exams a new lease of life. Pianists needn't worry, they already play from the great stave all but!

I'm a pianist as well but I still learnt about the other clefs. I actually enjoy learning about the aspects of other instruments as I feel much more knowledgeable about music than I did before I learnt grade 5 theory. You may not like learning about the tenor & alto clefs but they will come up if you get a question on transposing so it's up to you whether you want to risk losing those marks or spend a little bit of time learning about them & get a better overall mark on your exam. You don't have to learn very much anyway, you really only need to know where their middle C is on the stave.

Middle C in the alto clef is the third line up.

Middle C in the tenor clef is the fourth line up.

It's easy to remember anyway as the middle of the clef points to where middle C is on the stave.

Lisa xxx

Eeeek - this has just reminded me of some of the torture I suffered in my solfege class in Hungary earlier in the summer - SIGHT-SINGING WITH LETTER NAMES in alto, tenor, mezzo-soprano clefs *large gulp*.

We did sing this most amazing canon by Bach which is written out just the once, in bass clef. The tenor, alto and soprano all enter in canon at various points, all reading from the same music but each imagining a different clef. VERY hard (when singing with absolute pitch names) but just wonderful!

What's a mezzo-soprano clef Cyrilla??

Never really thought how lucky my son was in this respect before. As a pianist and cellist he's quite familiar with treble, bass and tenor clefs and with his sister learning viola last year he's quite comfortable with alto too.

Can't really belive youv'e asked such a short-sighted question.

My brain hurts just reading about it, Cyrilla!! What a feeling of achievement you all must have had!

Mezzo-soprano clef = middle C on the second line up, I think.

I don't mean to sound dismissive here but it's hardly a great deal being asked; remember this one fact:

Where the straight bit in the middle of the clef crosses a stave line that's where middle C is.

That, coupled with the ability to recite the alphabet looping at G is sufficient to answer any question you could be asked about both of these clefs in a grade 5 theory exam. Is that one statement really so much effort to learn . It's not like, as Cyrilla was (wow!) you're expected to read it fluently....

Sorry, that sounds a bit harsh, but I'm just trying to illustrate it really is that simple, don't take it personally .

Oooh, that's a good one, Lisa, thank you!

If you think of clefs by their proper names then it is easy to work out. There are only 3 clefs in common use.

The "alto" / "tenor" is really the "C" clef and as Lisa points out it shows where middle C is.

The "treble" clef is really the "G" clef and it curls around the G above middle C. If you see it written a line below where it usually is then THAT line is G. It's important when writing it out that you get it to curl around the right line!!!

The "bass" clef is really an "F" clef and the two dots go either side of the F below middle C. I have seen this written in a different place in the stave to where we usually see it in some old music, but as long as you remember it is showing you where the F is then it is easy to work out. As AP says, you just need to know the first few letters of the alphabet and you can work all the rest out from there.

Ooooh, thanks, Maggie - I just realised that I never answered noodle's question. Yes, the mezzo-soprano is a C clef placing middle C on the second line up.

Ummm, well, AnotherPianist - I might have been EXPECTED to be able to sight-sing fluently with absolute pitch names in the mezzo-soprano and other clefs, but whether I could actually DO it or not is quite another matter!

However, when the music is as amazing as the Bach canon we were doing, it's a fair incentive to be able to do it as one just wants to be able to sing the piece!

There was ONE person in my solfege group who could sing one part of said canon and play one of the other parts in a different clef - we were told to go away and practise singing one part and playing the other three (all in different clefs). Yeah, right...

Thanks. I'll never be able to read that. The alto clef is great, no problem at all, the tenor clef is fine until I get to ledger lines, but the mezzo-soprano clef would confuse me totally. Are there any others?

There's a soprano clef - can't think if it's been mentioned or not - bottom line is middle C.

So, are these other two noted by the same clef symbol as the alto and tenor clefs? Sorry to seem dense, but I only discovered the existance of these a few weeks ago!! All very, very interesting. I thought that, as tenor and alto existed, then women's voice range should have it's own clef(s) too, so good to see we are catered for!!!!!

Yes there are other clefs.

Have a look at:

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory1.htm


Go down the page a bit - look after alto clef for a few others.

yes they are - it's known as the C clef, as opposed to the G (treble) and F (bass) clefs.

Just out of interest, I don't ever remember hearing of anything other than G, F and C clefs. Has anyone ever come across a clef with any other letter name?? My trusty dictionary mentions just these three.

Woah! Enough clefs!!!!! Man, there are LOADS!

Funny that 'Dolmetsch' should be the name of a musical company, (my childhood descant recorder was one of theirs), as it's the German for 'interpreting'!! Maybe you can use it for interpreting music too. I'll have to ask my hubby (whose German....)

Its just that i don't know anything about them apart from the normal piano clefs!
And it shows ! E.G. Im trying to re-write an F note (tenor clef) so it goes onto the equivalent G clef ledger line.Only thing is it seems to have gone well off the ledger lines ( if it makes sense !) and im thinking "whats going on here !!"

I learnt those clefs in Music last Friday! I agree, they are annoying and complicating!

Car Expert