It is very rare to see professional violinists or pianists having started on their respective instruments later than the age of 13. To put it another way, no one, or very few people who started learning the violin or piano beyond the age of 13 and yet still reach a professional level of playing.

Professional means being able to play to the standard of musician having gone through a music performance degree in their respective instrument in a music conservatory, or at least being able to pass an audition to be considered admission to a music conservatory majoring in music performance in that instrument. In the case of violinists, professional means also having the standard to become a violinist in a professional orchestra.

I started the violin at the age of 23.5 years old. I'm now 27.5 and going for my grade 8. My dream is to become a professional violinist in a professional orchestra. Though, i have been told it is impossible, but i tell myself impossible is nothing.

I'm bench-marking my progress against the legendary violinist Jascha Heifetz, who started at 3 years old and was able to perform Mendelssohn's violin concerto at 7 years old. So, suppossing i'm not as talented as him and do not have as much time to practise as he did, i should be able to perform this concerto by at least 28.5 years old. Heifetz was admitted to St petersburg Conservatory at the age of 10, so i should also be able to reach a standard where i can pass a conservatory audition by the age of 30.5, if not one or two years later. I wonder if music conservatory would accept students of that age. I'm thinking of quitting my full time job to devote more time on the violin so that i can fulfill my challenge and my dreams.

I heard about 20 years ago of a Greek lady (no idea of her name) who started playing the piano at 30 and went on to become a professional soloist.

It is a rare thing, though, it has to be said.

I see in the aural thread that your teacher is a pro viola player. What does he say about your ambitions?

Steve

Actually some things *are* impossible, if you think otherwise you are deluding youself.

Only time will tell if it is possible to satisy this ambition of not. Good Luck!!

Time travel maybe???



If you are determined and have the belief in yourself then it must be possible to achieve your goal. Just by writing it down here you have increased your chances of success immensely

Keep working towards it and keep us informed how you get on. Would love to be able to do that myself

Whilst I don't want to crush your dreams, by all means go for it definitely there's absolutely no harm in trying especially if you thoroughly enjoy the process, I have learnt to do a little research of past posts before answering this sort of post.


One of the qualities I see in 99% of great musicians is humility and modesty: rightly or wrongly they very rarely will even think about comparing themselves to the great masters of the past, even if audiences and critics alike frequently state that they are the most amazing player of their generation. It's very rare to hear a professional violinist even suggest for a second that they have anywhere near the same level of talent/standing as such a great predecessor.


I don't think that this is impossible in general; but it's certainly not possible for everyone to do, you have to make sure that you have the right attitude, aptitude (okay not so much something someone can make) and amount of practise time to do it. I do agree with StuMac though, some things are impossible; in your case you'll never know until you try.


This is the part particularly that makes me wince, you seem to be saying well if one of the world's greatest ever violinists can do it I should definitely be able to do it because of my fast progress so far seems immensely arrogant. Having said that to just get into a conservertoire one doesn't need to be as good as Heifetz was. However, reading the following from the past:




If there's the remotest possibility that you will fail grade 8; or indeed if you did 'scrape' grade 7 then comparing yourself to Heifetz is very unrealistic and is demonstrating that you really need to gain a better understanding of what it is to play well. It is impossible to become a professional violinist without a good sound technique, beautiful tone and musicality. Don't use exams to get the highest grade number as soon as possible: whilst a distinction at grade 3 doesn't rule out the possibility that one has developed or is developing those things; a scrape at grade 7 definitely indicates that one is lacking those things. This is fine for the budding amateur violinist who just wants to explore lots of new and exciting hard repertoire; but for the budding professional the beautiful tone and sound basic technique would be far more useful. This is what you need to focus on, rather than ramping up the difficulty of pieces and struggling through them if you want to get somewhere. Conservertoire auditions look for potential to become a professional musician, whilst technical advancement (i.e. ability to play hard piece) does help a distinctive (in a good way!) tone, musicality, and a good solid technical foundation is what will really get you in.

By all means follow your dreams and I really do hope you get there; but do also try to be honest with yourself about your own abilities at all stages, and invest serious effort into learning to listen to your playing, and the playing of others, to see why others have made it, this way you know what sort of standard you need to achieve to get there. Really seriously I would love for an adult to make it and tell us all about their experience; I just feel that in order for you to make it a possibility you really need to rethink your attitude to study and need to get a better idea of the scope of what you're trying to achieve.

Best of luck, I really hope that you make it .

P.S. I hope I don't appear to be trying to put this person down and discourage them, I merely find that sometimes the advice people get from the forums on this type of topic (i.e. yes you're great go for it), whilst being friendly and supportive, is always the best advice to be given in these sorts of situations. I'm sure there will be plenty of that so I'm merely trying to take a realistic and more constructive advice approach.

Have to second AP here. I have had very talented friends who did well at grade 8 and then, because their teachers knew they wanted to take the instrument on further and study really seriously, then went back and spent a long time working at bowing on separate strings to make sure their bowing was as good as possible! (I always wondered why the teacher hadn't done that before, but hey ho... yours might have done!)

Solid technique now will help immensely especially if you wish to go far on your instrument. I've heard ATCL-level violinists, and they were extremely good. (I'm talking beautiful tone, amazingly good intonation (which is so hard on the violin!), very very good technique, and a good dollop of musicality - and that's just the first level of pro qualification) I think if I worked really hard at the violin I might just about manage grade 8, just! But there's no way I could get to ATCL standard, to the kind of standard they were at - not in a million years! I just don't have the technique, and years of "getting by" and being "OK" mean that I'll never get rid of some of my bad habits. I am no expert, but I have seen and heard what the level is... if you want to do ATCL or DipABRSM then I think you need to get to distinction level grade 8 standard (even if you didn't happen to get those marks in the actual exam) and THEN work some more and practise lots !

Don't be discouraged, but do be realistic - you haven't been playing long and you're doing really well so far, but rushing on to pro qualifications before you're ready will only lead to wasting money and huge disappointment. Make absolutely sure your basic technique is REALLY sound, as that is something that it will get harder and harder to correct if you have any bad habits. Far more important and long-term valuable to you than getting the grade exams "out of the way".

Good luck, & work hard! I hope you make it and I hope you keep us posted.

I think AP gives very good advice. Great musicians have humility, patience to learn (including from others) and self-belief. You need to cultivate these attitudes now which is just as important as solid technique from what I have read. Re. technique, please don't scrape through your grade 8. If you really want to do exams on the way to fulfilling your dream, then please do as well as you can by not entering unless your teacher believe you have a good chance of getting a merit - bearing in mind your dream? It's trite but TRUE - if something is worth doing, it's worth doing VERY well! ALL professional violinists are perfectionists!

As I've said I agree with AP totally. I only have one more word of encouragement, don't forget Paderewski! Think he began in his twenties, too, but he made it as a concert pianist despite his much criticised technique, and it was not even a long time ago. Remember Paderewski.

Speaking as a professional violinist, it's impossible to give enough agreement with those few, but very wise words.

Geigespieler,

You will have to be extremely hard on yourself, and be really honest to yourself about your own playing.

If something doesn't sound right or feel right then a professional violinist will admit this to themselves very harshly, go back over it time and time and time and time again, until it is impossible to play it either wrong, with a weak tone, incorrect bowing/phrasing or whatever. Sometimes this can mean weeks of work, (soloists often revist things for months before getting it right or being remotely happy with something!!).

Never be 100% satisfied with your playing, always strive for better. Yes, you can be pleased with a particular practice session or a problem solved, but never lapse into state where you are resting on your laurels and thinking things are just going along fine or take the attitude of "oh that will do". No it won't!!

When applying for a BMus performance course, you will find there is a lot of competition from some very promising students (who will probably be a lot younger than you) so this is where solid technique is essential, especially as you will be a mature student and they may be looking for maturity of playing and more musicality from an older applicant. Concentrate on technique building rather than learning lots of flashy difficult pieces - technique is the only tool that will let you play those difficult works properly anyway. In the meantime, join a local amateur orchestra or ensemble, build up a playing knowledge of the repertoire, as music colleges look for students who are already developing themselves as team players and all-round musicians. Take some advice from your own teacher and perhaps take a on a couple of your own pupils.

ALL auditions on the violin (music courses and professional orchestral) will ask you to play the first movement from either Mozart's D major K218, G major K216 concerto, or a Haydn concerto. Don't think for one moment these are 18th century push-overs. The soloist's entry in the Mozart D major is terrifying - I've known really good players flunk auditions just from one mistake they made in the first four bars.

Also remember that playing professionally doesn't just mean getting a job with some of the worlds top orchestras. Professionals also play in provincial orchestras, and you will find that's where most players from the top orchestras originally cut their playing teeth so to speak. Getting work is tough, there are more players than there are orchestral seats to fill - there are some music graduates who never play a note after leaving college!!. For this reason most players also teach - even some soloists!! - a lot of them have to, just to make the finances balance and to pay the bills.

I wish you good luck in your quest, but do keep the reality in mind. Don't look at being a professional player too much through rose-coloured spectacles, the grass ain't quite so green on this side of the fence.

Thanks for all your views, i think its very good and relevant.

Actually, i did get a merit for my grade 7 violin exams, just didn't want to make a big deal out of it, so i said that i "scrapped through" grade 7. For my coming grade 8, i'm actually aiming to get at least a merit, but i'm not so confident this time round, as i'm very weak in my aural and quite weak in sight reading.

By comparing myself with Heifetz, i'm not being arrogant, rather, i'm practising some NLP (Neuro-linguistic programming) theory, whereby i want to model after and learn from the best of the best.

I know the importance of sound basics, which is why, i might want to quit my full time job to spend more time in developing good techniques. In fact i've been concentrating mainly on scales, and some sevcik, mazas and kreutzer etudes. Actually, i seem to enjoy playing etudes more. The only music that i've been playing on the violin for the last one year is the 3 exam pieces.

Steve - he's all yours .

Actually, i have the exact opposite views about professional musicians with regards to that. Many of my ex- piano and violin teachers, who themselves are great musicians seems to lack humility. One of my ex piano teachers told me that he is a world class pianist and that his virtuosity is unsurpassed. Another of my ex-violin teacher (who is a 1st violinist in a professional orchestra), told me that his playing is far better than his colleagues, and that he doesn't need to use a particularly good violin, unlike his colleagues, as he already sounds superb playing a Chinese violin.

Which is tested in most auditions if I'm not mistaken; so that's something else to add to your to do list. You'll certainly need it in an orchestra and even more so if you want to do freelance work (perhaps also the skill of bragging and looking like you're playing in the latter too if you're called in at very short notice without hearing the conductors wishes at rehearsals!).


Good idea but learning from the best is different to learning from the speed at which the best learn. The former is wise; the latter may lead to disappointment and/or becoming out of one's depth very quickly.


Good for you although perhaps it's a little to early to be considering quitting your job unless you have a backup plan for how to live whilst doing this or what you will do if it doesn't work. Plenty of people study to the diploma levels whilst in full-time education or employment so it's not entirely necessary to give up one's job if one is working at the right level for one's ability.


If it takes that long doing nothing else to get the pieces ready (and you're not getting 30 for every one) then you're probably not that standard yet. This is where the basic technique comes in: a good violinist will have general skill, for example, good intonation in a variety of situations (shifts, even just changing between two notes) not have to practise so hard for every specific piece that they do to get their intonation spot on for that piece (okay so they will have to practise some areas but not have to do the whole thing practically from scratch every time).

What you really need is to have experience of a wide variety of repertoire and good technique. AmandaL gives good advice: she's been there and done it, get involved in local orchestras and so on to show that you're interested in that side of things too. Unfortunately in the respect of becoming a professional musician life is a competition, there is often someone who has been practising for longer or is more musical but is equally keen waiting to take one's place. Just think of all those people who have been playing for fifteen years with the same passion you've been playing for 4 (and yes there can be people in the world equally passionate, there are loads of them) and who are equally talented how do you expect to be better than them? I know if someone said that to me my answer would be simply to practise for a further 11 years; you must realise that these people exist and it might take time to reach your dream: don't give up just make considerations about the time you expect it to take before giving up the life that you have now.

Once again, good luck .

Obviously I don't know what your financial status is, but could you opt to work part-time?? Most music students do some sort of work - even teaching! It's a big step to give up your entire income when the long-term outcome is not cut and dried, not to mention what leaving the working world for any length of time looks like to a future employer should you struggle to find work in music.

Four hours practice a day (not necessarily all in one go), should be adequate for now. Too much can be as unbeneficial as too little practice and tiredness could be your own worst enemy, so do make sure you get a good amount of sleep - the brain will still be working subconciously on all those niggly technique problems you've be trying to solve.

If he truly was, why wasn't he touring internationally playing recitals and concerti, whilst taking a tidy sum from EMI to record CDs?

Note that AnotherPianist said great, not professional - very few pianists are great. Even Steve, a music college graduate with a successful recital and concerto career alongside his teaching, is humbled by Askenazy, Emanuel Ax et al. Simon Rattle, of all people, dislikes conducting Beethoven because he feels he cannot do it justice.

Indeed obviously musicians that think they are great musicians are not going to be demonstrating the modesty that I speak of; those who aren't quite so great feel that they need to say things like this! I meant musicians who are great not just those who think they are!

Well, i actually asked him that. He says that he hates the hassle of liasing and cooperating with conductors. And he thinks that making CD recordings is no big deal at all, because with advanced technology, any decent amateur musician can be made to sound very good on CDs.

Why not live solo recitals then? Evgeny Kissin is noted for his live note-perfect recitals.

Of course the only reason I'm not out there with a record contract from EMI is that I don't like the hastle of listening to someone else's opinion too, and find it all too easy to make an excellent recording . Nothing to do at all with the fact that the people out there doing so are better than me (although even if they weren't I simply wouldn't like the travelling, there you go another excuse to add to the list). Sounds like a bit of an excuse to me from someone who's rather bitter.

Yes, he has been giving solo and chamber recitals. He is actually quite well known in my area. But i prefer not to mention his name or my area, since i just made a not-so-good remark about his humility. Yes i did sense some form of bitterness. When i told him that i wanted to be a professional violinist, he says that it is imposible, no matter how much effort i put in, and that many people like me has ended up cynical about music as a result of not succeeding. Oh no, i hope he doesn't visit this forum and sees this post.

Is you real name Mr Geige Spieler? If not, I doubt you have anything to worry about.

Don't worry, I doubt he will see it: if he does he'll probably be sufficiently mad with me, an anonymous third party, not to get angry with you . I suspect that the reason he's locally famous rather than internationally famous won't be down so much to choice (although I could see reasons for that preference).


Well I would advise you to ignore that and work for your goal so long as you're enjoying the process, all the time bearing in mind that getting good at your instrument is priority one and if you make it that's a bonus don't throw everything away for it though. That way you get the best of everything: you never think 'what if I had tried', you do something you enjoy doing, and if you don't make it then there's no problem at least you're a good and happy amateur violinist. Just don't get too set on that final goal and enjoy the ride as long as you're happy if you don't make it you'll be fine .

But Perlman, Hahn, Milstein, Oistrakh, Francesscati, Gitlis are all humble. They feel they are far away from playing 100% well. If you read the Strings magazine, you'll find my list of GREAT violinists can go on and on forever. Even Heifetz told his accompanist (his main friend as he was not a sociable type) who later wrote a biography of him, he's not good and that he is not happy with his playing! How CAN your ex-violin teacher compare with these GREATs and even Heifetz?

When I was being trained in counselling, we (counsellors) were told that we are never to judge our counselees but to be aware nonetheless that insecure or depressed people - who most need our encouragement - boast the most! Don't let this apparent confidence mislead our evaluation in helping extremely insecure, bitter or depressed folks! Think about it.

Hmmm. I say this to my pupils too, but they know I am teasing.

Don't think you might be becoming just a little too intense about this, do you?

Steve

While i agree that many of these musicians you mentioned are truly humble, there are just as many great musicians who are outwardly humble, but inwardly have big egos that must never be bruised. The humility that they display is merely a fascade to make people respect them even more. I'm fine with that, but what i can't stand most are musicians who are obviously good and yet say that they are not doing this piece or that work justice by even attempting to play it or conduct it. It sounds so cliche.

I have read interview articles of great conductors and instrumentalist, and i find that whenever the interviewer makes a remark to suggest that the interviewee is not up to par in certain aspect, the interviewee will start to get very defensive in his/her response. I guess that is human nature. And i don't think it is uncommon for accomplished musician to have big egos, after all, they spent so much time and effort to perfect their art, they have the right to believe that they are the best.

In the context of what we were talking about before he made that remark, I can tell that he is dead serious. And, he also likes to criticize other professional musicians on how they are not up to par unlike himself.

I have had too many experiences of professional musician (besides my former violin or piano teacher) giving away unknowingly, their aloofness and big egos through my interaction with them, and most of them thinks highly of themselves, that i tend to get cynical when an accomplished musician tries to make self-depreciating remarks to make himself/herself look humble.

I wouldn't claim to be a great musician by any point, however I am intelectually humbled by Bach's music. There are certain pieces which I wouldn't even start to attempt to play out of respect for the music; perhaps one day, but at the moment although I could technically play them I would not do them justice.

All musicians need an inner confidence to believe that they can do what they do; that, however, is very different from arrogantly assuming that they're better than everyone else at do it, or even that they'd do a certain piece of music justice. Have you never thought, even once, that you wouldn't play a piece yet, not because you couldn't manage it technically, but because you simply could not do it artistic justice and wouldn't be happy with your own rendition?

A sign of a healthy musical sense is if one's appreciation of music outstrips one's technical abilities by a long shot - that's why even the best professional musicians aren't happy with their own performances. Lesser musicians who they they're 'it' have a poorly developed musical sense, and think that they can play anything.

If you can already technically play that piece, then the more you should start learning that piece to brush up the musical aspect, so that you can do it justice finally. When are you going to wait until for that one day to arrive before you think that you can do it justice? Are you going to watch many more people mastering it and doing justice to it, before you are convinced that you can also do justice to it?

I'm a very practical person, if i like a piece of music, and if i can handle it technically, i'll jump straight into improving my interpretation of it until i finally am happy with my own rendition, so i could do justice to it earlier.

Maybe you might think that i'm shallow in my appreciation of music, but i feel that all these talk about having respect and doing justice to music is making music learning too esoteric and unappealing.

No, it's likely that I'm going to watch a lot of other people think that they can do it justice but in reality murdering it horribly before I do, but that doesn't bother me, I'm not in competition with anyone. Some people will learn to play it artistically before me and do it justice; good for them, I shall enjoy listening to their playing: if they do, that means they were ready to tackle it at that point. I do not feel the need to be jealous of this or beat them, that's not what music is about.


If you feel that there's little or no difference between being able to play a piece technically and being ready to do it artistic justice then I do think that your musical understanding is something you should work on. It is much harder to develop one's artistic abilities on a piece on the very edge of one's technical abilities; it is unlikely that one would give a good rendition of a piece that one could only just physically manage to play.


It's all about understanding how good one's playing is and making a good rendition, rather than an acceptable or 'good enough' rendition of a piece: that something special which becoming professional is all about. If you find that boring then maybe you're looking at the wrong business...

I think a lot of musicians are perfectionists - I know I am - so if a performance is not perfect in their eyes, they will not be likely to say it was brilliant if they think they could have improved it at all. And musicians can also be very sensitive and need reassurance about their abilities. Yes, there are probably some who may be arrogant, but I think a fair few of even the top musicians have their doubts about themselves and can suffer from complete loss of confidence in themselves.

And it took me nearly 20 years before I finally felt confident enough to play the opening movement of the Moonlight in public as it needs incredible dynamic control and balance and I didn't feel confident enough to "do it justice" until recently.

Never heard of him, but will be checking this guy out - sounds intriguing...



As is so often said on here, music IS aural! So work on it. And if you want to be a pro, you will need to get GOOD at sight-reading. I know that many pro musicians only get an afternoon's rehearsal before a concert, especially round here when it's not usually regular orchestras but more people being pulled together for a one-off performance. If you wanted to be a session musician you would be expected to play anything in any key in any style - first time around!

Grade 8 merit would be a good starting point but not somewhere from where you can leap up to ATCL in one easy bound!


I'm not even going to START on what's wrong with this...


Oh, me too...

Chocolatedog makes an excellent point. There's a huge difference between a good playing of a piece and a truly great or excellent playing of it. The reason most top musicians are reluctant to say they have truly mastered a piece is because they have such a high degree of musicality and such a high ideal of what they are aiming for that they are disatisfied with anything less than perfect.

I don't think that Rattle was looking to have his ego massaged when he said that about Beethoven. I rather suspect he was just being honest that he didn't feel he could reach that incredibly high level of excellence that he felt the music deserved.

I was thinking along the lines of.....

.....Playing centre forward for Man United

.....Becoming a chess grand master

.....Running a sub 4 min mile

.....Devoping a theory to unify quantum mechanics and gravitation

.....Becoming a famous portrait painter

Surely these are all things that anyone should be able to acheive given the right mental attitude and a bit of application!!!!

I have lesser ambitions, and shall die happy if I play Claire de Lune and Chopin's Nocturne in E flat!

Not unless they change their all-male policy.

I shall not so much die happy as die of surprise if I'm ever able to play either of those pieces

Oh, for Goodness sake, YAP, come on. Stop mincing your words and say what you mean

Anybody else beginning to wonder whether GCBS has taken up the violin?

Steve

Playing from memory here, so details could well be wrong.

P was an early 20th century Polish pianist of legendary powers. He attended the Warsaw conservatoire having had no more piano lessons that were available from his local teacher (the biog I read implied that 'local' = useless; I maintain that local = stunningly brill if local=me, but that is another story )

Profs at the conservatoire insisted the P had no future as a pianist and insisted he studied composition. He carried on self-teaching himself the piano and became a leading virtuosi.

Prior to the Nazi invasion, he had become interested in Polish politics and became Prime Minister. On the invasion, he publicly promised never to play the piano again until his country was free again. For sure, he died before that happened.

Steve

Well I must admit a few bells had rung ...

That's a limiting belief!
But well ,you are right. If you believe you can do it you are right, if you believe you cannot do it you are also right.

Well, while i think that trying to put up a public performance of a piece of music without having both the technical and musical mastery is doing unjustice to that piece, there is absolutely nothing wrong in attempting to play ANY piece of music privately or in student concerts, especially when one has made technical mastery but not musical mastery of that piece of music yet. After all, it is through practising and through crtiticism from others that one reaches that level where one can be said to be doing justice to that piece of music.
By sitting there and gloating over other people's unsuccessful attempt to do a piece of music justice is only going to make you feel good, but not going to make you improve your musicality unless you take the first step to attempt it yourself and improve along the way.

I shall die ecstatically happy if my son becomes a self-employed piano teacher like Steve. That's a harder challenge than yours, G.

The social worker reduced me almost to tears when she told me it's impossible for him to live an independent life. If I had a gun, I would have shot her!

PS.
I happen to know how to shoot as I've used a gun before in previous training!

Not your counselling training, I hope.

That social worker should have known better. Fortunately there are thousands of stories of people who were written off prematurely, in music as well, so the important thing is not to let it become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Given time and a bit of lobbying at the FA..........

Well, I'd have to overcome my total aversion to Man U. I suppose if they paid me enough.

Now if Arsene Wenger were to offer me the job...

No, it's being realistic. I know my limits. I may one day get very good at the flute. I may get reasonable at the viola. I have had enough lessons and done enough practice and played long enough on both violin and piano to know my limits. If I really cared and wanted to become a desperately good pianist, then maybe I would play one of those pieces. But I don't, I just want to be reasonable at it, play accompaniments, get as good as I can for my own pleasure and satisfaction.


Um, where exactly was YAP gloating here??!

Considering he's already got the DipABRSM I think the reason he doesn't try certain pieces is because he knows he won't do them justice, not from some need not to be a failure playing hard pieces beautifully. No one is gloating about other people failing here...

This social worker has no idea what scientific developments are coming, that might help your son. She has seen few, possibly none of those 'magic moments' when you make a connection, or Danielle soothes him with her playing. She cannot possibly predict the long-term outcome.

I am aware that I do not always choose my words with appropriate care when contributing to these forums, especially when I am in one of my Foaming At The Mouth of Misterton moods. I have plenty of time to think and still get it wrong sometimes.

Let's be charitable and assume this was one such moment for a harassed, over-worked, running-late social worker.

If this is rubbish, and she is really a cow with the tact and human warmth of a battle-tank with attitude, then pump one from me when you pull the trigger.

Steve :SympathySmilie:

Yes, more so if you are like me and enjoy a quick trundle round the forums to see what is going on. Most GCBSinesque

So, who is up for a fresh poll? What will GCBS's next instrument be?

Steve

A friend of mine's sone has just graduated (in NZ) in clasical guitar after taking it up as his first instument aged 15, which is a monumental achievment but still a long way from being a succesful professional.

I honestly don't thnik you have any idea what is involved in succeding in *any* competive profession.

I have now spent years working as an academic scientist, and know what it is like to work in fields that require years of dedication and commitment. Whilst you are probaly right to say that self belief, to the point of monsterous egotism, is a valuable assest, I'm afraid sinmply saying "I can acheive anything if I try" just doesn't work.

Go to any pub in almost any town in the UK and you will almost certainly find someone who comes in night after night and bangs on about how he could have been a famous footballer / writer / actor / buissness man etc. etc. if only people had properly apprecaited their talent. That is what happens to people who fail to appreciate this fact.

To succeded in any competitive profeeions, and music / sport are probably the most competitive there are, you have to have a unique talent that is recognisable by other leaders in the field.

Getting a merit at grade 7 is a fatastic personal achievment, but is not an achievment that will not be seen as evidence of unique talent, particularly as you say your oral skills are not very good and you don't like sight reading! There are literally hundresds of people in any small town in the UK who have achieved this.

You also probably haven't realised that, in general, it's bad form to talk about your own talent!

Thanks, Steve. Just got back, log in very quicklyto check any new messages and saw yours. You've made me laugh, you have! I certainly will pump in 2 more shots for you!

Sorry to go a bit off-track on your challenge, G, but I just want to say here that Pianofan (my son) looks very normal. No one would know he's autistic unless they observe him as he does not play with other kids and has a habit of laughing to himself! He isn't hyperactive and is very affectionate albeit only to me as I train him to kiss me from birth! He's quite lost to the the world (including us) outside his pianoworld but presently he is very moved by all kinds of music, not just the piano. He sings scales to himself (untaught) and plays the piano every day like right now (whenever I'm on the forum, it's bec he's playing the piano!). He'll be 3 soon, cannot talk but understands just 3 words - big hug and kiss.

He's really adorable and my challenge is to train him to be independent and play music well - the love of his little heart!

Thanks, Steve, you ARE a star!

Usually the following holds:

• If you believe that you can't do something then you need confidence to believe you can do it before you can;
  
• If you believe you can do something and it's well within the realms of what most people could achieve with application, then you probably can;
  
• If you believe (particularly in music) that you can do things faster and/or better than everyone else then you're deluded....
  

I echo Sarah's question: How is saying what YAP said gloating precisely? Personally as someone who values my own musicianship and the music that I play I wouldn't play something that was out of my league even in a student concert: I'd rather play something else well, that's what music is about playing well and so long as there is music that I can play well and advance gradually I will do this rather than playing things to which I will not do justice: there's plenty of time to play those later when I will do them justice. I'm not saying that I do not wish to progress, I do, but the way to progress is through gradually improving with things that are realistcally achieved. I'm under no illusions that I can play badly whilst developing and then I'll get on to hard pieces (still focusing on what to play quickly not how to play it); one day then suddenly somehow I'll wake up able to play those pieces well rather than just playing them. One has to learn to play well just as much as one has to learn to play....

I would much rather listen to someone play something easier musically and well; than to someone murder something difficult.


No, playing repertoire that one can play well is going to do that, as YAP said; those battling with technical demands beyond their abilities and playing these pieces badly are the ones who will not develop musically.

Tess: I wish you all the best with your son: my older sister is brain damaged (and has been since birth) she is unable to live independently (can't walk, talk, etc.) but still has a good quality of life; I hope your son achieves the best he possibly can, I'm sure with your support that he will .

I don't see getting a merit in grade 7 as anything worth mentioning, which was why i did not want to mention it initially. And i don't think that i have any unique talents that others do not have, in the first place to mention it. I'm just an ordinary person who has the courage to dream big and the perserverance to do whatever it takes to fulfill my dreams.