Many concerts seem to conform to a traditional length and time of day. For instance there was one in Chester recently from about 7.30pm - 9.45pm which had someone playing the Bruch G minor violin concerto, as well as another piece which I now forget, and the Vaughan Williams Sea Symphony, with an interval somewhere in the middle.

Long may such a traditional approach continue, but it did strike me the other day that I would like, even if this was a fairly rare alternative, to be wandering past a city central venue one weekday lunchtime and see a poster for a short lunchtime concert not of piano trios and Schubert arias, but of an orchestra playing a well loved orchestral piece or concerto with soloist timed to fit in to a lunch hour.

For instance in Liverpool, to be European capital of culture 2008, there are a large number of workers within a short walking distance of the Town Hall, which has a magnificent (and unvisited by most) ballroom on the first floor. Or St. John's church in Chester (I think), just across from the amphitheatre, is supposed to have excellent acoustics. I would love, even if it was only once every six months, two years or five years, to have the opportunity to wonder into one of those places at lunchtime and listen to a good orchestra playing away, perhaps with soloist - not necessarily an array of international megastars; a professional orchestra or music college orchestra with one of its own members as soloist would both be fantastic.

I don't think the above idea is "dumbing down" of classical music because it would be an occasional addition to the traditional concert, not a replacement. It could have the potential to attract a wider audience, and perhaps encourage them into some of the evening concerts. Although as a student I loved traditional evening concerts, as a parent they involve a degree of organisation, and as a sometimes tired person a degree and duration of concentration which is not always enticing. There must be occasions where people particularly want to hear one of the items on a concert programme - why not as an occasional alternative give them the opportunity to listen to just that piece?

I think as my children get older I would like to take them to concerts. I think there will be a certain age where they would perhaps like to listen to the Bruch violin concerto without listening to the Vaughan Williams Sea symphony. Yet to buy a ticket to a concert featuring both pieces, and to then only attend one half of the performance, would seem unacceptably wasteful.

Equally there could be short daytime concerts at the weekend, or short concerts in the evenings. Does everything have to be the same length and at the same time of day?

I wonder if the amount of variety varies in different cities and different countries and even across different decades. My dad remembers as a child strolling down the prom in Llandudno to hear the "Pier Orchestra" which was members of the Liverpool Phil in disguise. I remember on tour playing Mozart's Requiem as a free lunchtime concert in Salzburg, and it went down a storm to a packed church - not because we were mega-fantastic, but because we were pretty good (for a bunch of English non-music students), and it was the right piece in the right place at the right time. Places like there or Prague or Budapest seem to attract such concerts. I'm not sure if London is like that.

What do people think?

(PS if you agree with me I shall try to enter the spirit of the point by doing a "short zoda post" every now and again instead of these long vague ones!)

I agree

ta Nat

Have I redeemed myself with that super short post?

Definitely

Hi Zoda,
There are plenty of lunchtime concerts you can take your kids to that are short in duration and high on quality in London. There are also evening ones specially geared for primary age children at the Barbican by LSOand in the West End, too.

The latter is educational so you need permission from the school.

Tess

I think that would be rather too far for zoda and his (her?) children to pop in for a lunchtime concert - s/he lives up North!

When I went on my flute course in Stratford, they held short, lunchtime concerts, as well as afternoon and evening concerts. But that doesn't really help you!

The point is made though. Some towns make a go of this.

There is usuaully a couple of lunchtime events, often free, in the City of London. Such a shame that the Barbican Centre is a little too far to comfortably walk ina lunch hour. It takes as long by tube. I have noticed a few events there however.

It sounds a great idea for putting music before the public eye or ear as you prefer! The two-hour concert is a very old tradition that could easily be built upon.

Yes I shall miss St Lukes when I change jobs next month, it is jusst across the road from our Head Office in London and I have spent amny a great lunch hour there.

As for Liverpool, we could try lobbying the BBC. Aren't their Philharmonic Orch based in Liverpool? and they could broadcast lunchtime concerts live on Radio 3 in that wonderful slot they have 1-2 (very often chamber music, and Wigmore Hall stuff currently).

I think it's a tremendous idea, zoda!

When I was in Hungary this summer we had full-length concerts in the evenings but also short (30-45 minutes) lunchtime concerts which were, in the main, given by 16-19 year-old students at the Kodaly school.

I just adored these! I don't think I have a problem with a short attention span - but I just loved the brevity - it didn't mean that there was any 'dumbing down' of either content or quality. However, one was left feeling satisfied and just ready for lunch!

I much prefer a concert which leaves me wanting more, rather than one where you are looking at your watch...(there are only two groups of performers that I listen to where the time just flies and I could listen to them for hours more!)

My dad (now in his late 70s) used to work in London as a young man and remembers frequently going to lunchtime concerts with his sandwiches!

I agree that it would be wonderful to be able to 'pop in' to such events - and, as you say, they don't have to be given by mega-stars to be interesting and enjoyable.

Yes, I'd love the chance to go to lunchtime concerts.

Thanks for the replies, focus group!

All I have to do now is become prime minister and sort it all out - where's Jim'll Fix It when you need him?

In the interim it is interesting to hear that Stratford and parts of London already have lunchtime orchestral concerts - I shall make more investigation up North just in case my beady google eye has missed something!

There are some occasionally in Manchester, I remember going to a piano trio one lunchtime, but I think it will be chamber music, not orchestral.

Word to the wise, if you live near a concert venue which is open during the day, sometimes you can listen in on rehearsals. I recall when I was in Durham one day wondering back through the Cathedral to go back to college, and lo and behold, the Halle were practising. Not exactly a concert, but wonderful music, and free, and in such a setting.

Yes, I get the impression that places that "do" lunchtime concerts, which you do spot from time to time, always do chamber music. I do actually like chamber music and I think for the most part it's an appropriate type of music to fill lunchtime concert slots. I was just wondering if there couldn't be some variation from that so that, maybe only very occasionally, when you could see short orchestral concerts, perhaps of one well known orchestral piece, at lunchtime.

That is very interesting, Sarah. I remember at Warwick being able to sneak into rehearsals and it was really great. There was this fantastic orchestra - I think the Moscow State Symphony Orchestra or something like that and I wondered in - There were all these musicians with the bearing of Jascha Heifitz standing around having a little play, then this hassled looking man came out trying to get them all ready to play. I thought he was the conductor and was surprised that they didn't seem all that respectful to him - sitting down in their own sweet time and chatting to each other.

Then this guy who was the conductor came out and from his first step out of the wings all the faffing about just died instantly and everyone was poised to play the first note.

There is something really cool about hearing a rehearsal. I had planned to find out if I can get the children into one, and made some unsuccessful searches on websites for any indication of "open rehearsals". I've been a bit wary of just wondering into a rehearsal as I don't want to get thrown out like Deanna Durbin in "100 men and a girl" but your post has put the thought back in my mind!

I think that somewhere like a Cathedral they probably aren't *allowed* to shut it down as such for a whole day just because some orchestra is practising - after all, it's primarily a place of worship, or supposed to be, not to mention often being a tourist attraction (esp Durham Cathedral which is superlatively beautiful IMNVHO!) - I know that when I was working in Gloucester at the Saturday music school I more than once saw bits of rehearsals (sometimes with people I knew playing) for evening concerts of a Saturday afternoon. Difficult to find open rehearsals in concert halls I would guess, but well worth keeping an eye out for concerts happening in Cathedrals or churches!

that's a good tip! Now you highlight it, a few years ago I did meet up with a friend who was visiting Liverpool on a course, and we went to have a look at the Anglican cathedral. We stumbled across the Merseyside Youth Orchestra rehearsing Stravinsky's "Firebird" Suite and it was a real unexpected highlight of the visit. I suppose the trick is working out how to keep bumping into things like that!

I think you just have to be lucky! But if you keep an eye on concerts happening in cathedrals and churches in your area you could increase your chances of being lucky...

They're based in Manchester.

On the topic of BBC orchestras, the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra quite often do concerts at 1 in the afternoon, recorded for broadcast on BBC 3. For example, one I have my eye on in October is Rachmaninov's 4th Piano Concerto and Sibelius's 2nd Symphony. The tickets are free, available for three weeks before the event.

I've just done a search on lunchtime concerts and pulled up the programme for the BBC concerts at the Wigmore Hall. I've found that Emmanuel Pahud is playing next Monday - Poulenc, Widor and Franck - and I'm almost certainly going to be working. Grrr!

With any luck I should be able to listen to a re-run on the Radio 3 website.

I've just looked at the Wigmore Hall website, and it's been changed. Not Pahud after all. I'm not sure whether to be disappointed, or pleased I won't miss it.

I believe the CBSO do "Rush Hour" concerts in Symphony Hall, Birmingham, lasting about an hour at 6pm or so (sounds better than spending that time fighting the crowds on the train or roads) Bit of along way to bring the children though!

On the topic of BBC orchestras, the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra quite often do concerts at 1 in the afternoon, recorded for broadcast on BBC 3. For example, one I have my eye on in October is Rachmaninov's 4th Piano Concerto and Sibelius's 2nd Symphony. The tickets are free, available for three weeks before the event.

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wow! I followed through your weblink and found the same concert, then when I re-read your post I realised you'd already mentioned it! What a lunchtime concert! You'd better get your application in quickly!

Only trouble for me is, it's in Glasgow.

I went to the BBC Phil website, but they don't seem to have the same set up. There are some lunchtime concerts, but not with programmes like that, and they run from 2pm - 3.40pm - nice lunch !

It's quite a good deal actually - I think the next day they're doing that concert in the evening (plus an overture) for money. Tickets are only available from three weeks before the event though so I'll send off early October for them.

Hmm, I guess the distance is a problem - it's a good two and a half hours on the train from 'the north west' to Glasgow. So you'd have to lose a working day for it, and then you may as well have gone in the evening .

even by the standards of the thrifty Scot!

I bought a saucepan in Edinburgh once for 8p but this beats even that!

I very much welcome alternative formats! While we have been in NZ, a visiting soloist canceled, and the supporting orchestra played a shortened 1 hour version of the original programme instead. The local reaction was very enthusiastic - for those with young children and the elderly, the early finish was a boon; for me, it meant that my less musical son actually enjoyed the programme (he doesn't dislike music, but he's not an ears person, and a long programme tires him out). For families or couples with some less musical members, it's hard to justify the time and expense of full-length concerts at big-name prices.

And to be honest, I hate long programmes. By the end of the evening, only a few things stand out in my memory, while the rest has descended into the sludge forever. With a short programme, I can remember and think about the different components and how they fit together.

Well he's not quite a Scot but he does come from (very near to) Yorkshire .

Hi Zoda,

You should have a look at RNCM and Chethams if you are in that area. They frequently have free lunch time concerts - or Chets do anyway.
I've seen the odd lunchtime/early afternoon concerts at RN.

I've been to the Bite Music at the Bridgewater too which are free most Friday lunchtimes but have just finished for now.

I think they run from July/Aug til Sept at B/water

Fiona

Probably run outside the orchestras' main season? Seems like a good idea to keep revenue coming in.

It's great idea.
You get a good range of different instruments, ensembles and composers.

If I'd not seen them there, I'd probably not have listened to them.

It broadens your musical knowledge

Fiona

Thanks, Fiona.

I am sometimes in Manchester and we have also been there on the occasional weekend with the children, so this is definitely worth checking out. Do they do orchestral music?

The University of Birmingham often have lunchtime recitals on at the Barber Institue of Fine Arts. Generally its 3rd years doing recitals to warm up for their finals, but I know that London Brass are playing sometime in October.

Thanks, Fiona.

I am sometimes in Manchester and we have also been there on the occasional weekend with the children, so this is definitely worth checking out. Do they do orchestral music?

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As far as I know, it's all the Chets students giving concerts. So I guess it would be anything from solo work through to orchestras. Even choirs.

Chet's do for certain, I have a cd of their orchestra playing Tchaik 5 somewhere.

I've had a look at the Chet's website. They have a fairly regular concert in Manchester Cathedral on Tuesdays at 1.10pm called "Music for a while". I get the impression its likely to be small chambery stuff, but definitely worth a look in if I'm there at that time.

Sorry. Jo and Zoda. Missed this thread for a while. Actually, I know you live up north but what we used to do when we went somewhere far like Bristol, etc, was kill 2 birds with one stone? Say, visit London and attend a concert?

By the way, I once took VN to a 3-hr masterclass (with permission from the school) and then we went shopping at antiquarian bookshops for another 3! The last 3 hours - we missed just for variation in our day out together as we rarely get a chance to be together without the brother!

Good luck, zoda as RNCM should be good!

nice to know I'm not the only one, allears!

thanks Tess and others for your further thoughts.

oh ho!

This is just what I had in mind, from the RNCM website:

on Tuesdays 4th, 11th and 18th October at 1.15pm in the Hayden Freeman concert hall at RNCM, the RNCM concerto orchestra and 3 students are playing Shostakovich Cello concerto No1 (first concert), Prokofiev violin concerto No 1 (second concert) and Copland clarinet concerto (third concert). Free entry no tickets required.

Thank you to all who mentioned RNCM. I'm not sure if I will be in Manchester on those lunchtimes, but I shall certainly keep checking the website! I would particularly like to hear the Shostakovich.

There's also a Junior RNCM concert at lunchtime on 8th October.

It's funny I imagine many people live out their whole lives living and working in Manchester, perhaps walking right past the building, without knowing what an interesting lunchtime they could be having!