Up to this Summer I have always had a ludicrously large number of pupils - around 60 - 70 at home with a total of about 30 in schools, on top of that, per week, frequently resulting in in over 100 (usually half hour) lessons a week!
I have had a number of pupils give up over the summer - this is entirely expected (moving on to university, moving out of the area etc.) but I have definitely had more than usual and my school numbers have also declined.
This would all be fine, but for the first time, I have noticed that I am simply not getting the same number of enquries, as before, from new pupils. Five or six years ago it was really hard to get on with the lessons because the phone was always ringing with new enquries, but not any more.
A bit of background:
I teach piano, clarinet , saxophone and theory - all to Grade 8 level
I advertise in four different editions of Yellow pages
Every local music shop has my details
I live in one of the most affluent parts of Surrey
.....so why all at once am I getting far fewer enquiries?
I have noticed from the school work that I do that the insruments with the largest number of 'takers' are drums, guitar and voice - this is kind of predictable but the saxophone used to be like that with myself and this has now declined a fair degree.
So what I would like to know is, have any of you noticed a similar trend?
Full Version: Declining Demand For Music Tuition
QUOTE(Bantock @ Sep 10 2005, 08:37 PM)
Up to this Summer I have always had a ludicrously large number of pupils - around 60 - 70 at home with a total of about 30 in schools, on top of that, per week, frequently resulting in in over 100 (usually half hour) lessons a week!
I have had a number of pupils give up over the summer - this is entirely expected (moving on to university, moving out of the area etc.) but I have definitely had more than usual and my school numbers have also declined.
This would all be fine, but for the first time, I have noticed that I am simply not getting the same number of enquries, as before, from new pupils. Five or six years ago it was really hard to get on with the lessons because the phone was always ringing with new enquries, but not any more.
A bit of background:
I teach piano, clarinet , saxophone and theory - all to Grade 8 level
I advertise in four different editions of Yellow pages
Every local music shop has my details
I live in one of the most affluent parts of Surrey
.....so why all at once am I getting far fewer enquiries?
I have noticed from the school work that I do that the insruments with the largest number of 'takers' are drums, guitar and voice - this is kind of predictable but the saxophone used to be like that with myself and this has now declined a fair degree.
So what I would like to know is, have any of you noticed a similar trend?
I have had a number of pupils give up over the summer - this is entirely expected (moving on to university, moving out of the area etc.) but I have definitely had more than usual and my school numbers have also declined.
This would all be fine, but for the first time, I have noticed that I am simply not getting the same number of enquries, as before, from new pupils. Five or six years ago it was really hard to get on with the lessons because the phone was always ringing with new enquries, but not any more.
A bit of background:
I teach piano, clarinet , saxophone and theory - all to Grade 8 level
I advertise in four different editions of Yellow pages
Every local music shop has my details
I live in one of the most affluent parts of Surrey
.....so why all at once am I getting far fewer enquiries?
I have noticed from the school work that I do that the insruments with the largest number of 'takers' are drums, guitar and voice - this is kind of predictable but the saxophone used to be like that with myself and this has now declined a fair degree.
So what I would like to know is, have any of you noticed a similar trend?
jeff, is there meant to be a reply?
I don't have any problem at all with my private teaching - I still have a waiting list - but I've certainly noticed a difference at the local primary school where I teach.
I've taught in the Junior School there in two different 'eras' - in the mid-late 80s, when my children were at the school, and again for the last four years when I was approached by the 'Gifted and Talented' co-ordinator and asked if I'd run a choir and some recorder groups as well as take on a few individual lessons.
When my own children were there, it was a thriving school musically, even though it is in what could be termed a 'deprived area'. The school had access to the local Music Service, and many children had lessons on strings, woodwind and brass. A good proportion of the children joined my choir, and the recorder classes were full to bursting. There were frequent concerts and musical shows. The children who learnt orchestral instruments had access to the Music School's orchestras and bands, and I know that many of the children continued with their instruments at senior school and became very good musicians.
When I returned a few years ago, the situation was not nearly so good. Since the school had for several years had the OPTION of deciding whether to buy in music or not, rather than having it provided, it had chosen NOT to do so. I discovered that there were now very few children learning instruments - literally just a handful learning the piano in a school of over 200 children. No-one at all seemed to be learning an orchestral instrument.
There was huge interest in the choir I set up - in fact I had to split it into two because the numbers were just too great - and there was an excellent take-up for recorders too. At this stage the school funded all the lessons I gave through the Gifted and Talented scheme, because the co-ordinator was an amateur musician herself and knew the great benefits music can bring to an individual and to the school as a whole. She fought to get extra bits of money here and there so that I could do as much teaching as possible there, in the face of disapproval from many of her colleagues who, quite honestly, didn't give a toss about music.
Now, four years later, the situation is quite bleak. The teacher in question left just over a year ago, frustrated with the current school system - though she loved the children, she had just been driven beyond endurance by the bureaucracy and constant niggling, and decided to take early retirement.
As soon as she left, I was informed that the school would no longer be prepared to pay for my services, and that although I could could continue to teach recorders there I would have to charge the parents and deal with them myself. I was told that the choir, however, would be discontinued (even though some parents were willing to pay). The children were desperately disappointed about this - they even went to the Head as a delegation about it, but were told to 'stop their nonsense'
Well, recorder pupil numbers in the school have been steadily falling since then, even though I only charge a VERY modest amount per pupil for the group lessons. For the first time since I returned to work there, I have found that I'll only need to go in on two afternoons a week rather than three.
I find this so depressing - it's not the pupils who don't want to play, but with no financial backing from the school it's now the parents of a lot of them refusing to let them start or, even worse I think, letting them start but then stopping the lessons after a term or so.
I've lost some pupils from that school who were really promising musicians, and it breaks my heart - I just hope that they get a chance to learn an instrument or sing at their secondary schools....It IS a poor-ish area, but a fair few of these families who allegedly can't afford to pay £2.50 a week (during term-time only, remember) seem to go off on exotic holidays here and there - it's a matter of priorities, I suppose.....
Goodness, I think this must be the longest post I've ever done!
I've taught in the Junior School there in two different 'eras' - in the mid-late 80s, when my children were at the school, and again for the last four years when I was approached by the 'Gifted and Talented' co-ordinator and asked if I'd run a choir and some recorder groups as well as take on a few individual lessons.
When my own children were there, it was a thriving school musically, even though it is in what could be termed a 'deprived area'. The school had access to the local Music Service, and many children had lessons on strings, woodwind and brass. A good proportion of the children joined my choir, and the recorder classes were full to bursting. There were frequent concerts and musical shows. The children who learnt orchestral instruments had access to the Music School's orchestras and bands, and I know that many of the children continued with their instruments at senior school and became very good musicians.
When I returned a few years ago, the situation was not nearly so good. Since the school had for several years had the OPTION of deciding whether to buy in music or not, rather than having it provided, it had chosen NOT to do so. I discovered that there were now very few children learning instruments - literally just a handful learning the piano in a school of over 200 children. No-one at all seemed to be learning an orchestral instrument.
There was huge interest in the choir I set up - in fact I had to split it into two because the numbers were just too great - and there was an excellent take-up for recorders too. At this stage the school funded all the lessons I gave through the Gifted and Talented scheme, because the co-ordinator was an amateur musician herself and knew the great benefits music can bring to an individual and to the school as a whole. She fought to get extra bits of money here and there so that I could do as much teaching as possible there, in the face of disapproval from many of her colleagues who, quite honestly, didn't give a toss about music.
Now, four years later, the situation is quite bleak. The teacher in question left just over a year ago, frustrated with the current school system - though she loved the children, she had just been driven beyond endurance by the bureaucracy and constant niggling, and decided to take early retirement.
As soon as she left, I was informed that the school would no longer be prepared to pay for my services, and that although I could could continue to teach recorders there I would have to charge the parents and deal with them myself. I was told that the choir, however, would be discontinued (even though some parents were willing to pay). The children were desperately disappointed about this - they even went to the Head as a delegation about it, but were told to 'stop their nonsense'
Well, recorder pupil numbers in the school have been steadily falling since then, even though I only charge a VERY modest amount per pupil for the group lessons. For the first time since I returned to work there, I have found that I'll only need to go in on two afternoons a week rather than three.
I find this so depressing - it's not the pupils who don't want to play, but with no financial backing from the school it's now the parents of a lot of them refusing to let them start or, even worse I think, letting them start but then stopping the lessons after a term or so.
I've lost some pupils from that school who were really promising musicians, and it breaks my heart - I just hope that they get a chance to learn an instrument or sing at their secondary schools....It IS a poor-ish area, but a fair few of these families who allegedly can't afford to pay £2.50 a week (during term-time only, remember) seem to go off on exotic holidays here and there - it's a matter of priorities, I suppose.....
Goodness, I think this must be the longest post I've ever done!
Jo - how sad.
It needs just one person of vision on the staff, doesn't it, who sees the value of music and is prepared to fight its corner. If that person leaves, ... philistines!
I'm sure your story is repeated in many places around the country. So much potential and lost enjoyment.
It needs just one person of vision on the staff, doesn't it, who sees the value of music and is prepared to fight its corner. If that person leaves, ... philistines!
I'm sure your story is repeated in many places around the country. So much potential and lost enjoyment.
I'm not sure there is a declining demand for tuition, but as I am finding, it's very hard to get started. I think, that whilst advertising on paper is valuable, it is the word of mouth that is the best. Saying that, I've had 3 queries this week - with at least 2 of those seeming to turn into something. A lot, I guess, also depends on which part of the country you are in.
David
David
Hello Bantock,
Like you I advertise in Yellow Pages. I also have my own website and have my details on various listing sites for teachers. Recently I've had a few new pupils from these sources. Perhaps you could have a greater internet presence?
Regards
John
Like you I advertise in Yellow Pages. I also have my own website and have my details on various listing sites for teachers. Recently I've had a few new pupils from these sources. Perhaps you could have a greater internet presence?
Regards
John
This is a tricky one, I think, because the situation seems to vary so much in different areas. I've found the opposite situation from Jo in that my school peri work is flourishing-over 60% of children in the school I teach in are learning an instrument, either in school or out, and this is reflected in the student numbers I get. I think lots of this is down to the school music teacher, who has worked really hard to create excitement around music, and promotes interest in the idea of having lessons, and a supportive Head and music playing a big part in the school life. Interestingly, the whole cost of lessons is passed onto the parents-the school prefers to spend the money on whole class activities for everyone-but there is an awareness that the school is in an area where parents can afford to pay for lessons-there's no shortage of money. I have found in this case that lack of subsidy for lessons has made little or no difference on student numbers- it's balanced out by the money being spent instead on better school music for the whole class, which creates more interest in learning, which gets me more students, etc. But in a more deprived area it would be a different story. So I don't think there's an easy answer-it all depends where you are, the situation in the school. I also work part time in a local music school and have had no shortage of enquiries and new students. I have noticed a drop in private enquiries-but have put this down to the fact that our local music shop has recently changed hands, and at present I dont have a card up in there- purely because I don't have any vacancies at the moment!
Many thanks for all your comments. One thing I have noticed is that there is much more competition than when I started, almost thirty years ago. Only ten or so years ago there were only two or three teachers in each edition of Yellow Pages - now there seems to be nearer twenty. Despite that, though, most of my work still comes from word of mouth.
Actually - I have noticed I haven't had any phone enquiries this month, despite it usually being a busy time. Our local schools have been back since the middle of August and usually by now my waiting list is beginning to build up again, but so far, nothing........ And I'm one of only 2 in the area, and usually have a 2-year waiting list. 
I had a small but welcome influx of adult pupils during June and July, some of whom kept up during the holidays, and most of these seemed to come from the UK piano teachers' website - a fairly recent advertising slot for me. (It's part of EPTA).
Any of you who teach piano might like to think of getting a listing on there. I've been on another site for years and had barely a nibble - this recent one seems to produce many more enquiries. It doesn't cost anything, just takes a few weeks to get implemented.
Chocolate Dog - I have found the same so far this school year - it used to be a fairly busy time for enquiries - this year so far nothing since the beginning of August. I'm not bothered since I'm fairly full - but normally one or two enquiries at least come in. Maybe the first couple of weeks of term need to be past before people start thinking of other things to take on - I have a feeling that October sometimes yields a few.
David - so pleased to hear you've had a few phone calls!
Any of you who teach piano might like to think of getting a listing on there. I've been on another site for years and had barely a nibble - this recent one seems to produce many more enquiries. It doesn't cost anything, just takes a few weeks to get implemented.
Chocolate Dog - I have found the same so far this school year - it used to be a fairly busy time for enquiries - this year so far nothing since the beginning of August. I'm not bothered since I'm fairly full - but normally one or two enquiries at least come in. Maybe the first couple of weeks of term need to be past before people start thinking of other things to take on - I have a feeling that October sometimes yields a few.
David - so pleased to hear you've had a few phone calls!
So far, nearly all of my pupils have been word of mouth since I stopped teaching in the local Music Shop. I've lost some over the past few months but also managed to replace them through recommendations etc. At the moment, I dont advertise but its something I might need to do in the future. Actually, I have a very carefree approach to my job in the sense that I just think, I'll continue as long as I can and if I can't keep my levels up, Job centre and part-time work, here I come!!! I know some people who dont work half as hard as I do and yet they get pretty good pay so there's always life after teaching, or at least alongside it. Maybe some of us teachers should consider more seriously into getting a duo or something together and getting some gigs in high class venues. That would bring in some nice extra pay no doubt.
Gae
Gae
QUOTE(maggiemay @ Sep 11 2005, 01:03 PM)
I had a small but welcome influx of adult pupils during June and July, some of whom kept up during the holidays, and most of these seemed to come from the UK piano teachers' website - a fairly recent advertising slot for me. (It's part of EPTA).
Any of you who teach piano might like to think of getting a listing on there. I've been on another site for years and had barely a nibble - this recent one seems to produce many more enquiries. It doesn't cost anything, just takes a few weeks to get implemented.
Chocolate Dog - I have found the same so far this school year - it used to be a fairly busy time for enquiries - this year so far nothing since the beginning of August. I'm not bothered since I'm fairly full - but normally one or two enquiries at least come in. Maybe the first couple of weeks of term need to be past before people start thinking of other things to take on - I have a feeling that October sometimes yields a few.
David - so pleased to hear you've had a few phone calls!
Any of you who teach piano might like to think of getting a listing on there. I've been on another site for years and had barely a nibble - this recent one seems to produce many more enquiries. It doesn't cost anything, just takes a few weeks to get implemented.
Chocolate Dog - I have found the same so far this school year - it used to be a fairly busy time for enquiries - this year so far nothing since the beginning of August. I'm not bothered since I'm fairly full - but normally one or two enquiries at least come in. Maybe the first couple of weeks of term need to be past before people start thinking of other things to take on - I have a feeling that October sometimes yields a few.
David - so pleased to hear you've had a few phone calls!
Presumably you have to be an Epta member? I used to be but let it lapse - maybe I should think about joining again, but the magazine put me off a bit, to be honest. (Which is a stupid reason, I know!!)
QUOTE(chocolatedog @ Sep 11 2005, 01:10 PM)
QUOTE(maggiemay @ Sep 11 2005, 01:03 PM)
I had a small but welcome influx of adult pupils during June and July, some of whom kept up during the holidays, and most of these seemed to come from the UK piano teachers' website - a fairly recent advertising slot for me. (It's part of EPTA).
Any of you who teach piano might like to think of getting a listing on there. I've been on another site for years and had barely a nibble - this recent one seems to produce many more enquiries. It doesn't cost anything, just takes a few weeks to get implemented.
Chocolate Dog - I have found the same so far this school year - it used to be a fairly busy time for enquiries - this year so far nothing since the beginning of August. I'm not bothered since I'm fairly full - but normally one or two enquiries at least come in. Maybe the first couple of weeks of term need to be past before people start thinking of other things to take on - I have a feeling that October sometimes yields a few.
David - so pleased to hear you've had a few phone calls!
Any of you who teach piano might like to think of getting a listing on there. I've been on another site for years and had barely a nibble - this recent one seems to produce many more enquiries. It doesn't cost anything, just takes a few weeks to get implemented.
Chocolate Dog - I have found the same so far this school year - it used to be a fairly busy time for enquiries - this year so far nothing since the beginning of August. I'm not bothered since I'm fairly full - but normally one or two enquiries at least come in. Maybe the first couple of weeks of term need to be past before people start thinking of other things to take on - I have a feeling that October sometimes yields a few.
David - so pleased to hear you've had a few phone calls!
Presumably you have to be an Epta member? I used to be but let it lapse - maybe I should think about joining again, but the magazine put me off a bit, to be honest. (Which is a stupid reason, I know!!)
erm - I don't know - I 'm not actually a member and I don't remember seeing anything on the site that indicated listing was for members only. Sounds a bit naff - it never occurred to me. Wasn't asked for a membership number or anything - which is probably how they'd do it.
I wouldn't object to joining at all if needed. It provides quite a good service and one that seems to work!
What was wrong with the magazine?? out of interest!
Couple of enquiries this week - so term has started and is starting to feel more normal.
How's everyone else doing?
How's everyone else doing?
I'm still waiting to hear how many college students I will have - with a maximum of three carrying on from last year (a bad year for college drop-outs) it will be smallish, I fear. However they have asked me to run a lunchtime flute group, which will add some variety to the day and give me another 45 minutes or so.
Privately I'm still in the middle of my timetable revamp. I have lost one student (wants to concentrate on AS levels) and another one who never really took off. She was one of the three I lost at college because she couldn't fit me in, came privately for a term and then succombed to overwork. She emailed me over the summer to ask if she could have fornightly lessons, but has since decided she can't cope with that. A shame, really, because she passed Grade 8 with merit back in year 10, and was a lovely player. But, she wants to go to medical school, and seems to get stressed easily, so it's probably for the best.
I have three new private students waiting to hear from me at the weekend when I know when my gaps are, so overall I'm up slightly. I also may hear from an adult who rang me a few months ago and said that she would ring me in September to book daytime lessons when I know my college timetable. She may or may not get back to me, but if she does that will bring my adult student count up to three (all beginners or near beginners) which has potential.
Privately I'm still in the middle of my timetable revamp. I have lost one student (wants to concentrate on AS levels) and another one who never really took off. She was one of the three I lost at college because she couldn't fit me in, came privately for a term and then succombed to overwork. She emailed me over the summer to ask if she could have fornightly lessons, but has since decided she can't cope with that.
A shame, really, because she passed Grade 8 with merit back in year 10, and was a lovely player. But, she wants to go to medical school, and seems to get stressed easily, so it's probably for the best.I have three new private students waiting to hear from me at the weekend when I know when my gaps are, so overall I'm up slightly. I also may hear from an adult who rang me a few months ago and said that she would ring me in September to book daytime lessons when I know my college timetable. She may or may not get back to me, but if she does that will bring my adult student count up to three (all beginners or near beginners) which has potential.
Slowly! Couple of consultation lessons this week and have extended my advertising period because two of my adults have gone (one for a 3 month break as has moved away for work, the other cancelled a lesson with illness, took a holiday an I haven't heard from her since!) feels like I'm still running just to keep still.... have a quarter of the pupils I need to get a decent income! I keep panicking as I thought there would be much more interest by now..
Hi Folks,
How about some free advertising?
A concert in the local Church hall for pupils works really well and the local newspaper will invariably give you a free editorial (I offer to write it myself which saves them time and trouble) and come along to take a picture.
I've booked my evening for Monday 28th November and pupils can bring the certificates from the Associated Board earned during the year, to show off on the a presentation table.
I'll give 'Music Award' rosettes for my top pupils and '1st Concert Rosettes' to pupils who haven't played at a concert before. Just type in '1st concert rosettes' on google for a supplier of rosettes.
My daughter brings her recorder class from Grafton House School in Ashton under Lyne and this year she is bringing glocks'
The whole concert lasts about one hour. It is informal and great fun. We have a raffle to raise funds for the school instruments at Grafton House and an admission charge to cover the tuning of the pianos in the Church Hall and the Church.
This is local newspaper and should bring in some feed back with the free advertising and bring in some new pupils, if it is stated that there are one or two vacancies.
Anyone else found this kind of event helpful?
How about some free advertising?
A concert in the local Church hall for pupils works really well and the local newspaper will invariably give you a free editorial (I offer to write it myself which saves them time and trouble) and come along to take a picture.
I've booked my evening for Monday 28th November and pupils can bring the certificates from the Associated Board earned during the year, to show off on the a presentation table.
I'll give 'Music Award' rosettes for my top pupils and '1st Concert Rosettes' to pupils who haven't played at a concert before. Just type in '1st concert rosettes' on google for a supplier of rosettes.
My daughter brings her recorder class from Grafton House School in Ashton under Lyne and this year she is bringing glocks'
The whole concert lasts about one hour. It is informal and great fun. We have a raffle to raise funds for the school instruments at Grafton House and an admission charge to cover the tuning of the pianos in the Church Hall and the Church.
This is local newspaper and should bring in some feed back with the free advertising and bring in some new pupils, if it is stated that there are one or two vacancies.
Anyone else found this kind of event helpful?
QUOTE
Couple of enquiries this week - so term has started and is starting to feel more normal.
How's everyone else doing?
How's everyone else doing?
I starte one new pupil last week but although it's the 2nd week in, I'm still trying to re-arrange some pupil's places. The problem has been compounded by the fact that two of my pupils, whose parents I fell out with over the Summer retainer issue, have unexpectedly expressed their desire to come back and I'd given their slot to someone else because I'd given up on them coming back. I'm now getting all stressed out trying to sort out a new slot for them without messing other people around. I dont want to turn them away either because its a double booking. I'm also waiting on a mother and daughter to start lessons in the next couple of weeks once they have bought a piano. So things are pretty busy for me which is good after the Summer Holiday break. I can start paying the bills again now and come off the bread and water.
Gae
I've just heard from the college, and the good news is I've got 5.25 hours of teaching time. This includes the flute choir session. The bad news is it's spread over three days. But, hey, it's a lot more than I thought I would get this year, and I quite often find one or two extras appearing during the first week or so. HAving so few carrying on from last year means I'm optimistic they'll all appear as well. Two of them are intending to take A2 music, so they get their lessons as part of their course.
This includes the flute choir session. The bad news is it's spread over three days. But, hey, it's a lot more than I thought I would get this year, and I quite often find one or two extras appearing during the first week or so. HAving so few carrying on from last year means I'm optimistic they'll all appear as well. Two of them are intending to take A2 music, so they get their lessons as part of their course.
Just a small statistical point - there is a much larger "cohort" of children currently moving through secondary school (ages roughly 14-18) with very big school years in most parts of the country (children of the 60's baby boomers..): in years below this there are far fewer children around. Thus the headlines about surplus school places in primary schools, school closures etc. So overall demand for lessons (which often start at ages 7+) will be falling off as the older "bulge" years leave with fewer new pupils to replace them (on average) - unless a greater proportion of the next generation can be encouraged to take up an instrument...
Always worth remembering these demographics when you see shock horror headlines about the dramatic increase in teenagers doing X, Y or Z ---there's been a dramatic increase in teenagers full stop!
Always worth remembering these demographics when you see shock horror headlines about the dramatic increase in teenagers doing X, Y or Z ---there's been a dramatic increase in teenagers full stop!
QUOTE(jo.clarinet @ Sep 11 2005, 06:10 AM)
I don't have any problem at all with my private teaching - I still have a waiting list - but I've certainly noticed a difference at the local primary school where I teach.
I've taught in the Junior School there in two different 'eras' - in the mid-late 80s, when my children were at the school, and again for the last four years when I was approached by the 'Gifted and Talented' co-ordinator and asked if I'd run a choir and some recorder groups as well as take on a few individual lessons.
When my own children were there, it was a thriving school musically, even though it is in what could be termed a 'deprived area'. The school had access to the local Music Service, and many children had lessons on strings, woodwind and brass. A good proportion of the children joined my choir, and the recorder classes were full to bursting. There were frequent concerts and musical shows. The children who learnt orchestral instruments had access to the Music School's orchestras and bands, and I know that many of the children continued with their instruments at senior school and became very good musicians.
When I returned a few years ago, the situation was not nearly so good. Since the school had for several years had the OPTION of deciding whether to buy in music or not, rather than having it provided, it had chosen NOT to do so. I discovered that there were now very few children learning instruments - literally just a handful learning the piano in a school of over 200 children. No-one at all seemed to be learning an orchestral instrument.
There was huge interest in the choir I set up - in fact I had to split it into two because the numbers were just too great - and there was an excellent take-up for recorders too. At this stage the school funded all the lessons I gave through the Gifted and Talented scheme, because the co-ordinator was an amateur musician herself and knew the great benefits music can bring to an individual and to the school as a whole. She fought to get extra bits of money here and there so that I could do as much teaching as possible there, in the face of disapproval from many of her colleagues who, quite honestly, didn't give a toss about music.
Now, four years later, the situation is quite bleak. The teacher in question left just over a year ago, frustrated with the current school system - though she loved the children, she had just been driven beyond endurance by the bureaucracy and constant niggling, and decided to take early retirement.
As soon as she left, I was informed that the school would no longer be prepared to pay for my services, and that although I could could continue to teach recorders there I would have to charge the parents and deal with them myself. I was told that the choir, however, would be discontinued (even though some parents were willing to pay). The children were desperately disappointed about this - they even went to the Head as a delegation about it, but were told to 'stop their nonsense'
Well, recorder pupil numbers in the school have been steadily falling since then, even though I only charge a VERY modest amount per pupil for the group lessons. For the first time since I returned to work there, I have found that I'll only need to go in on two afternoons a week rather than three.
I find this so depressing - it's not the pupils who don't want to play, but with no financial backing from the school it's now the parents of a lot of them refusing to let them start or, even worse I think, letting them start but then stopping the lessons after a term or so.
I've lost some pupils from that school who were really promising musicians, and it breaks my heart - I just hope that they get a chance to learn an instrument or sing at their secondary schools....It IS a poor-ish area, but a fair few of these families who allegedly can't afford to pay £2.50 a week (during term-time only, remember) seem to go off on exotic holidays here and there - it's a matter of priorities, I suppose.....
Goodness, I think this must be the longest post I've ever done!
I've taught in the Junior School there in two different 'eras' - in the mid-late 80s, when my children were at the school, and again for the last four years when I was approached by the 'Gifted and Talented' co-ordinator and asked if I'd run a choir and some recorder groups as well as take on a few individual lessons.
When my own children were there, it was a thriving school musically, even though it is in what could be termed a 'deprived area'. The school had access to the local Music Service, and many children had lessons on strings, woodwind and brass. A good proportion of the children joined my choir, and the recorder classes were full to bursting. There were frequent concerts and musical shows. The children who learnt orchestral instruments had access to the Music School's orchestras and bands, and I know that many of the children continued with their instruments at senior school and became very good musicians.
When I returned a few years ago, the situation was not nearly so good. Since the school had for several years had the OPTION of deciding whether to buy in music or not, rather than having it provided, it had chosen NOT to do so. I discovered that there were now very few children learning instruments - literally just a handful learning the piano in a school of over 200 children. No-one at all seemed to be learning an orchestral instrument.
There was huge interest in the choir I set up - in fact I had to split it into two because the numbers were just too great - and there was an excellent take-up for recorders too. At this stage the school funded all the lessons I gave through the Gifted and Talented scheme, because the co-ordinator was an amateur musician herself and knew the great benefits music can bring to an individual and to the school as a whole. She fought to get extra bits of money here and there so that I could do as much teaching as possible there, in the face of disapproval from many of her colleagues who, quite honestly, didn't give a toss about music.
Now, four years later, the situation is quite bleak. The teacher in question left just over a year ago, frustrated with the current school system - though she loved the children, she had just been driven beyond endurance by the bureaucracy and constant niggling, and decided to take early retirement.
As soon as she left, I was informed that the school would no longer be prepared to pay for my services, and that although I could could continue to teach recorders there I would have to charge the parents and deal with them myself. I was told that the choir, however, would be discontinued (even though some parents were willing to pay). The children were desperately disappointed about this - they even went to the Head as a delegation about it, but were told to 'stop their nonsense'
Well, recorder pupil numbers in the school have been steadily falling since then, even though I only charge a VERY modest amount per pupil for the group lessons. For the first time since I returned to work there, I have found that I'll only need to go in on two afternoons a week rather than three.
I find this so depressing - it's not the pupils who don't want to play, but with no financial backing from the school it's now the parents of a lot of them refusing to let them start or, even worse I think, letting them start but then stopping the lessons after a term or so.
I've lost some pupils from that school who were really promising musicians, and it breaks my heart - I just hope that they get a chance to learn an instrument or sing at their secondary schools....It IS a poor-ish area, but a fair few of these families who allegedly can't afford to pay £2.50 a week (during term-time only, remember) seem to go off on exotic holidays here and there - it's a matter of priorities, I suppose.....
Goodness, I think this must be the longest post I've ever done!
Can I just say that your situation is very similar to one in my childrens school. My eldest takes clarinet lessons with the county and enjoys it. These lessons are provided by the county at her school. I filled in an application for my youngest daughter only to be told that there was not enough demand to support lessons for her year. I know of at least two other parents who entered their children for the same instrument!
The music teacher they did have has been let go with the result that there is now no choir. Given the school has had a choir for over 100 years I find this a sad inditment of the current set up there.
I find it annoying that educational experts say that music is so good for the development of children I can see no good reason for effectivly stopping children doing music.
I am very fortunate to be able to afford lessons for my youngest daughter outside of school, at the end of the day lesson can be expensive (please note this is no reflection on teachers who all charge I am sure a fair price). I feel people who can not afford the lesson have been let down and deserve better.
...... sorry .... put soap box away ....
Jo.clarinet that is very sad....
I am in a similar situation.... I have a very supportive head and who would like more music in the school but the governors and staff are not as supportive. It took a long time to pursuade the school to offer recorders and other music activities to the children during the lunchtime. It was all to do with being inclusive and lack of finance. In the end the PTA funded some of the tuition so the children could start learning. I cant understand how under £2 a week is too expensive for group tuition of recorders? Is it? Anyway parents have been very supportive but I am getting paid less than my hourly rate for teaching privately and I was teaching groups of 10 children at a time !! This year I have stated max 8 in a group. Still too many but better.
There are so many children that are eager to learn but not enough funding and I am not in a position where I can offer free tuition. Although I was asked and I am working less than my hourly rate!
The music service dont offer piano so I wrote and spoke to a number of schools about piano tuition and they all said it was not inclusive i.e. not an ensemble instrument. The 2nd problem was lack of finance and space. So I change it to violin tuition but not much luck in that area either. County do teach violin but there isn't much interest as the children that do take it up are left with teachers that keep changing each term or dont turn up each week. That has been going on and off for about 2-3 years.
My other option was to be a peri.... but I dont like the idea of teaching huge groups of children at such a young age. How can you really mix abilities and ages on such a complex instrument?
I know some of you do teach violin successfully in groups but would you rather work with the child at his pace not one set by their group.
I am targetting music in a school at the moment, recently I offered to teach violin but although the head was supportive it is still very quiet. Heard moans about not squeaky violins but still waiting the outcome.
Back to private tuition I am full at the moment but I am about to lose up to 5 students during the school year with families emigrating to US/NZ/Australia. I have children waiting and i still get regular inquiries although not as much as it used to be.
I am in a similar situation.... I have a very supportive head and who would like more music in the school but the governors and staff are not as supportive. It took a long time to pursuade the school to offer recorders and other music activities to the children during the lunchtime. It was all to do with being inclusive and lack of finance. In the end the PTA funded some of the tuition so the children could start learning. I cant understand how under £2 a week is too expensive for group tuition of recorders? Is it? Anyway parents have been very supportive but I am getting paid less than my hourly rate for teaching privately and I was teaching groups of 10 children at a time !! This year I have stated max 8 in a group. Still too many but better.
There are so many children that are eager to learn but not enough funding and I am not in a position where I can offer free tuition. Although I was asked and I am working less than my hourly rate!
The music service dont offer piano so I wrote and spoke to a number of schools about piano tuition and they all said it was not inclusive i.e. not an ensemble instrument. The 2nd problem was lack of finance and space. So I change it to violin tuition but not much luck in that area either. County do teach violin but there isn't much interest as the children that do take it up are left with teachers that keep changing each term or dont turn up each week. That has been going on and off for about 2-3 years.
My other option was to be a peri.... but I dont like the idea of teaching huge groups of children at such a young age. How can you really mix abilities and ages on such a complex instrument?
I know some of you do teach violin successfully in groups but would you rather work with the child at his pace not one set by their group.
I am targetting music in a school at the moment, recently I offered to teach violin but although the head was supportive it is still very quiet. Heard moans about not squeaky violins but still waiting the outcome.
Back to private tuition I am full at the moment but I am about to lose up to 5 students during the school year with families emigrating to US/NZ/Australia. I have children waiting and i still get regular inquiries although not as much as it used to be.
QUOTE(1stviolin @ Sep 15 2005, 10:29 PM)
Just a small statistical point - there is a much larger "cohort" of children currently moving through secondary school (ages roughly 14-18) ......
So overall demand for lessons (which often start at ages 7+) will be falling off as the older "bulge" years leave with fewer new pupils to replace them (on average) - unless a greater proportion of the next generation can be encouraged to take up an instrument...
Always worth remembering these demographics when you see shock horror headlines about the dramatic increase in teenagers doing X, Y or Z ---there's been a dramatic increase in teenagers full stop!
So overall demand for lessons (which often start at ages 7+) will be falling off as the older "bulge" years leave with fewer new pupils to replace them (on average) - unless a greater proportion of the next generation can be encouraged to take up an instrument...
Always worth remembering these demographics when you see shock horror headlines about the dramatic increase in teenagers doing X, Y or Z ---there's been a dramatic increase in teenagers full stop!
That's a useful point - I hadn't looked at it in quite that way! So anyone who is maintaining a more or less consistent level of teaching is actually doing better! I guess it's still a bit worrying for anyone whose teaching has decreased - but at least we can tell ourselves it isn't us!
QUOTE
The music teacher they did have has been let go with the result that there is now no choir. Given the school has had a choir for over 100 years I find this a sad inditment of the current set up there.
I find it annoying that educational experts say that music is so good for the development of children I can see no good reason for effectivly stopping children doing music.
I find it annoying that educational experts say that music is so good for the development of children I can see no good reason for effectivly stopping children doing music.
kmt 63 well said - thought your post was excellent if you don't mind my saying so - and I'm always so sorry to hear of musical tradition being lost.
I get loads of pupils from the nearest secondary school. In return, I help out with accompaniment for exams etc. I have loads of pupils.
This has not always been the case. Over 25 years as a freelance piano teacher, there have been bad times as well as good. These things go in cycles, in my experience.
Steve
This has not always been the case. Over 25 years as a freelance piano teacher, there have been bad times as well as good. These things go in cycles, in my experience.
Steve
Well I hope there isn't a sea-change, but my student roll in schools isn't so good this year. The good news is that I've kept all but one of my 16 school-based students; the bad news is that this term I've only gained ONE new one coming up from Year 6 to secondary school (I teach in 2 secondary schools). This time last year I had EIGHT new year 7 violin students. That's an 800% decrease. What's going on????
Any other secondary school violin peris having the same experience?
On a brighter note, I seem to have the usual amount of enquiries for private lessons; could this mean that violin in secondary school is becoming an (even more) uncool option? One of my secondary students has asked me if I could start teaching her at my house because she hates taking the violin to school - finds it embarrassing. I guess with flute you can stick it in your bag, and a piano's already there - and saxes and guitars are cool -
Oh dear...
But on another brighter note, I got an enquiry today about a 4-year-old boy desperate to start lessons... I said yes, but have never started such a little one before. Will keep you informed!
Violinia
Any other secondary school violin peris having the same experience?
On a brighter note, I seem to have the usual amount of enquiries for private lessons; could this mean that violin in secondary school is becoming an (even more) uncool option? One of my secondary students has asked me if I could start teaching her at my house because she hates taking the violin to school - finds it embarrassing. I guess with flute you can stick it in your bag, and a piano's already there - and saxes and guitars are cool -
Oh dear...
But on another brighter note, I got an enquiry today about a 4-year-old boy desperate to start lessons... I said yes, but have never started such a little one before. Will keep you informed!
Violinia
QUOTE
But on another brighter note, I got an enquiry today about a 4-year-old boy desperate to start lessons... I said yes, but have never started such a little one before. Will keep you informed!
I tried a couple of pupils at this age when I first started teaching and found it wasn't for me at the time. I felt more like a Kindergarten Supervisor than a Piano/Music teacher and back then, it wasn't what I wanted to do at all. These days, I'm probably a bit more open and would see a clapping/singing/drawing etc based music lesson, away from the instrument, fun and a nice change.
Gae
I was talking to another flute teacher this week who has had an enormous increase in his school workload this year, and now has 32 pupils at one school (where the work is shared between two teachers). My son's saxophone teacher had to change his lesson time twice last year because her school hours have increased.
Maybe more children are taking up woodwind instruments than strings, or maybe this area of the country (which is quite affluent) is more able to afford individual lessons?
Maybe more children are taking up woodwind instruments than strings, or maybe this area of the country (which is quite affluent) is more able to afford individual lessons?
Or maybe these matters just have no logic to them and they are impossible to totally predict? 
Gae
Gae
QUOTE(andante_in_c @ Sep 17 2005, 12:34 PM)
I was talking to another flute teacher this week who has had an enormous increase in his school workload this year, and now has 32 pupils at one school (where the work is shared between two teachers). My son's saxophone teacher had to change his lesson time twice last year because her school hours have increased.
Maybe more children are taking up woodwind instruments than strings, or maybe this area of the country (which is quite affluent) is more able to afford individual lessons?
Maybe more children are taking up woodwind instruments than strings, or maybe this area of the country (which is quite affluent) is more able to afford individual lessons?
I live in an extremely affluent area! (not affluent myself - moved here before it became so popular and expensive!)
Well, I look at the noticeboards in the schools I teach in, and flute is always well-subscribed - I think it has a 'cooler' image than violin at secondary school level. Also, there's a choice of jazz exams, whereas for violin there's no jazz syllabus in the pipeline for at least 10 years!!! A pupil said today he'd love to do a jazz violin exam and he pointed that I'd 'clean up' if there was a jazz violin syllabus. I certainly would - there's nobody else teaching jazz violin within a 50 mile radius of where I live!
I was just surprised at the lack of violin students coming up from year 6 to year 7 this year. Guess I should look at getting work in primary schools, but I have a big problem - the Music Service here won't give me any work because I work privately for the schools and one of the schools (where I do a 6 hour day) is in her authority. She has offered me work but only if I change my terms of employment with that school and work directly for the Service, not that school. This would mean taking a £4 p.h. pay cut, and it could also mean she could change my hours and basically shift me around anywhere she wanted. I decided to stay put, but the result is that she refuses to give me any work unless I give in and do all my work in the county for her!!!
So in a way I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Aaargh. It's a pain because I have it on good authority that not all music services would take this somewhat intransigent position.
Has anybody else had this experience?
Violinia
Two primary schools that I visit have had a good number of beginners. One has started 10 flute players and another 19 flute/clarinet. This isn't the same in all schools though.Iit seems to depend on the attitude of the staff and how proactive they are prepared to be on your behalf. Another school I visit now has only 3 flute players in year 6 and although I have been in especially twice to see possible beginners(play them tunes and let them try out the instruments) the music co-ordinator said that no-one had got back to her and no plans to follow it up. I shall be quite glad to go somewhere else!
I don't teach from home so can't comment on falling numbers ourside schools.
I don't teach from home so can't comment on falling numbers ourside schools.
QUOTE(Bantock @ Sep 10 2005, 08:37 PM)
Up to this Summer I have always had a ludicrously large number of pupils - around 60 - 70 at home with a total of about 30 in schools, on top of that, per week, frequently resulting in in over 100 (usually half hour) lessons a week!
I have had a number of pupils give up over the summer - this is entirely expected (moving on to university, moving out of the area etc.) but I have definitely had more than usual and my school numbers have also declined.
This would all be fine, but for the first time, I have noticed that I am simply not getting the same number of enquries, as before, from new pupils. Five or six years ago it was really hard to get on with the lessons because the phone was always ringing with new enquries, but not any more.
A bit of background:
I teach piano, clarinet , saxophone and theory - all to Grade 8 level
I advertise in four different editions of Yellow pages
Every local music shop has my details
I live in one of the most affluent parts of Surrey
.....so why all at once am I getting far fewer enquiries?
I have noticed from the school work that I do that the insruments with the largest number of 'takers' are drums, guitar and voice - this is kind of predictable but the saxophone used to be like that with myself and this has now declined a fair degree.
So what I would like to know is, have any of you noticed a similar trend?
I have had a number of pupils give up over the summer - this is entirely expected (moving on to university, moving out of the area etc.) but I have definitely had more than usual and my school numbers have also declined.
This would all be fine, but for the first time, I have noticed that I am simply not getting the same number of enquries, as before, from new pupils. Five or six years ago it was really hard to get on with the lessons because the phone was always ringing with new enquries, but not any more.
A bit of background:
I teach piano, clarinet , saxophone and theory - all to Grade 8 level
I advertise in four different editions of Yellow pages
Every local music shop has my details
I live in one of the most affluent parts of Surrey
.....so why all at once am I getting far fewer enquiries?
I have noticed from the school work that I do that the insruments with the largest number of 'takers' are drums, guitar and voice - this is kind of predictable but the saxophone used to be like that with myself and this has now declined a fair degree.
So what I would like to know is, have any of you noticed a similar trend?
Hi Bantock!
Have you thought about using the internet? Internet searching seems to be so popular now, I thought I'd make my own website dedicated to piano lessons. I had to buy one of those "web design for dummies" books, but it wasn't too difficult and actually turned out quite well! Within a week of the site showing up in Google results, I had six different enquiries about lessons - five of which are now coming to me for lessons!
Amanda xx
QUOTE(andante_in_c @ Sep 14 2005, 09:02 AM)
[Ex-student]emailed me over the summer to ask if she could have fornightly lessons, but has since decided she can't cope with that. A shame, really, because she passed Grade 8 with merit back in year 10, and was a lovely player. But, she wants to go to medical school, and seems to get stressed easily, so it's probably for the best.
A shame, really, because she passed Grade 8 with merit back in year 10, and was a lovely player. But, she wants to go to medical school, and seems to get stressed easily, so it's probably for the best.If she gets stressed easily she doesn't sound an ideal candidate for medical school. She would probably really benefit from a fortnightly "music therapy" session where you could play duets with her (starting with really simple ones if her sight-reading is weak or just rusty), or practise your accompanying skills while she reads through some enjoyable solo music. I've had one or two students in the past who did that when school or work pressures got heavy.
I definitely typed a reply to this earlier in the day but it doesn't seem to have shown up. Probably my fault rather than the system's! I'm not actually a technophobe, just intermittently incompetent.
You make several good points there, da capo. I trust the interview system will weed her out if she's not suitable for medical school.
I think she might have considered carrying on if I had been teaching her for longer, but on-and-off last year it was only a term and a half. I think she still feels she has to 'perform' for me in lessons, and so wouldn't be relaxed enough to really get the most out of 'therapy' type sessions. She's a bit of a perfectionist, as a lot of academic high-flyers are.
I think she might have considered carrying on if I had been teaching her for longer, but on-and-off last year it was only a term and a half. I think she still feels she has to 'perform' for me in lessons, and so wouldn't be relaxed enough to really get the most out of 'therapy' type sessions. She's a bit of a perfectionist, as a lot of academic high-flyers are.
QUOTE(andante_in_c @ Sep 17 2005, 09:06 PM)
You make several good points there, da capo. I trust the interview system will weed her out if she's not suitable for medical school.
I think she might have considered carrying on if I had been teaching her for longer, but on-and-off last year it was only a term and a half. I think she still feels she has to 'perform' for me in lessons, and so wouldn't be relaxed enough to really get the most out of 'therapy' type sessions. She's a bit of a perfectionist, as a lot of academic high-flyers are.
I think she might have considered carrying on if I had been teaching her for longer, but on-and-off last year it was only a term and a half. I think she still feels she has to 'perform' for me in lessons, and so wouldn't be relaxed enough to really get the most out of 'therapy' type sessions. She's a bit of a perfectionist, as a lot of academic high-flyers are.
I agree, but perhaps you could help her to learn to switch it off in at least one context! Worth a try...
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