Would any body have any advice on the suitability (or not) of the oboe for my daughter, who's only 7. I understand that a full set of teeth are nescessary, and she's nearly there on that. She saw an oboe player in a small ensemble and is absolutely certain that's what she wants to play. I've suggested clarinet (which her sister plays), but she is firm on her views.
I'd like to encourage her enthusiasm, but will need to manage her expectations if the consensus is that she should be much older. She already plays recorder.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
EB

There seems to be conflicting information about starting the oboe that I've heard.

I know Diana Doherty - principal oboist of the Sydney Symphony Orchestra - started at 8 years old.

They're also starting to encourage very young children (primary school age) to start taking up the oboe, clarinet and bassoon. They make smaller versions of them, of course.

This is an Australian site, but it might help you:

Kinder Harmony Instruments

(that page has general information about the instruments)

Despite their colourful paint-job they are "real" instruments and provide a good stepping stone to the larger instrument when they are older. And the tiger-stripes are so cute!

Here is the page about oboes in particular:

Kinder Harmony Oboes

Instrument maker GUNTRAM WOLF also sells these instruments

Guntram Wolf Children's Instruments

The oboe in F uses fingerings similar to recorder (the actual oboe fingerings are fairly similar to recorder fingerings anyway so it won't be too big a deal when she "graduates" to a concert oboe).

It's also played with an English Horn reed, which has a larger aperture so it would probably be less problematic for a younger player.

Might be worth giving Howarths a call.

http://www.howarth.uk.com/

One of the aims of the covered hole/plateau system was to accommodate smaller hands. Teeth are less of a problem as long as the front ones are okay - one stretches ones lips across them but they don't bite on the reed. A missing milk tooth shouldn't be a problem. Have the professional oboists on the forum any views on that?

Obviously you don't have to buy from Howarths so this isn't an ad. In their favour, I've found their service and support excellent. So are their instruments.
They'd advise on suitable reeds too though you may prefer to find a reed-maker who would make them to your spec. (Usually a bit cheaper too). They are fragile and expensive so warn your daughter to take care!

Another suggestion - a good secondhand instrument from a reputable dealer might be better. Wood oboes need time settling in - the first few months the wood may move and minor adjustments might be necessary, so a good settled-in oboe may save visits to a repair shop. Again, Howarths or other specialist woodwind dealers would advise.

Don't even think of buying an oboe from ebay unless you have someone there to ask the right questions!

PF

Sorry to hijack the thread, but a quick question if I may - would I be in anyway disadvantaged in attempting to play the oboe with a gap of around 2mm between my two front teeth? As I understand it, one has to bite the reed, so I was wondering if this would be an issue.

Thanks

No, you don't bite the reed! !

You roll your lips over your teeth to make an 'elastic' cushion and the pressure comes from your lips - not an awful lot but enough to close the tip of the reed enough to get the notes you want. Gap in teeth will not disadvantage you at all.

My bad....



Yay .

(starts saving up for oboe...).

Oh boy, my heart starts pounding whenever someone not a bassoonist/oboist mentions "biting the reed".

Do you ever have nightmares about breaking reeds?

Another item to add to your wishlist?

Was just looking at the page out of interest, can some helpful oboist explain the difference between the 3 different models? They have English, French and German Oboes but, as far as I could work out, they didn't seem to explain what the difference was... I am confusled!

English oboes?

French oboes are the standard that you see basically everywhere bar Vienna. German oboes are probably just "French" oboes made by a German maker.

Viennese oboes have a different tone (darker and less conspicuous), usually only go down to middle C (instead of Bb). They also have a different fingering system and tend to be played in a different style (because there is a different philosophy behind it).

Quite I've succeeded in finding something that costs more than a lute .

It did make me laugh the other day, though - the university baroque ensemble has succeeded in finding a harpsichordist, a bassonist, a recorder player and an oboist but is short a violinist and a cellist. So much for shortage instruments .

http://www.howarth.uk.com/oboes.html
"thumbplate (English), conservatoire (French) and automatic (German)"





*laughs*

Ah, I think those are different mechanisms for getting into the next octave etc.

Je deteste le thumb-plate!

The German one appears (from the pictures of just the very top) to have considerably more keywork than the other two.

The English one offers a thumbplate, dual system (conservatoire with thumbplate) and then the dual system with a 3rd octave key... the other two just offer with or without a 3rd octave key. It seems odd that they (as far as I can find) offer no further explanation I'll keep looking, as now I am intrigued!

edit: just been reading the technical specs and still none the wiser intrigued by the semi-automatic and automatic octaves... banana keys... full gillet... vents...

Sarah, hi!

This gets even more confusing!

English oboes use the thumbplate system. The lefthand thumb works two keys* a thumbplate and the "first octave" key. The thumbplate covers a hole and provides alternative fingering for Bb and C in the middle register. These notes can also be made using a lever worked by the edge of the righthand index finger.

(* could be 3 keys - a 'third octave' key. Two octave vents are provided as standard. On non-automatics they are keyed, the first takes you from E - G# in the middle octave, the second from A to C. A third oct key is a luxury and is said to help with the very top octave or what you can play of it. C#-D and D# at the bottom of the middle octave are vented by shifting the left hand index finger to reveal a venting hole)

The French is the conservatoire system used, yup, in France and USA. It has no thumbplate, substituted by fingering with the right hand. The lefthand thumb operates the first octave key (and third, if present). Gillet invented the "mechanised oboe" and a full gillet is much like the German except I don't think it has fully automatic octaves.

The German is like the conservatoire but is automated so you don't have to press separate octave keys and usually has a full compliment of trill keys. I'm not absolutely sure if there's anything else unique. I know no one who has one so perhaps another oboist could comment.

However, the oboe is priceless for non-standard keys - you can fit a thumbplate to a conservatoire, as you said; extra keys to make various trills possible, difficult or ineffective without them, like low c-c#. You get alternative C# and F keys for the left hand at the bottom of each register. etc etc. You can have extra keys fitted after buying it.

The problem with automatics is some alternate fingerings in the top octave are out. Harmonics (at the 12th for special effects) are out so "trills" trilling on alternative fingering for the same note are out, and special effects like multiphonics and octaves. And a lot more can go wrong if the wood should shift.

Oh dear, if this seems confusing it's the oboe!

Hi there

Please permit me as an oboe teacher of over 30 years standing to comment on your questions:

First, if she's keen to play the oboe then don't try and persuade her onto the clarinet - encourage a love of the oboe and the thought that she can play it. However, 7 is very young for an oboist - it's not just a question of can she reach the keys (important though that is) but also of the physical demands of playing the instrument and the need to ensure her teeth are well settled at the front before doing so.

If you start her this young (and I generally prefer my pupils to be at least 9 years of age and relatively robust in physique too) then please get an oboist to teach her. Like all instruments the oboe can be a difficult "beast". Managing reeds (she'll need pretty soft ones to start with), developing good technique etc needs to be taught by an oboist if at all possible. Generally I find flute/clarinet teachers are not very good at dealing with the complexities of oboe reeds. When I pick up pupils taught previously by non-specialist oboe teachers, I usually find I have to go back to the beginning in most cases and start again.

I am not sure about the wisdom of starting on a smaller instrument in the key of F with an English Horn reed. It's something not much done in the UK (as far as I can see) and certainly I've not seen any oboe music published assuming the instrument is in F. This means if you buy her music with a piano part that will be for an instrument in C, so either she'll have to transpose her music or use different fingering to the concert oboe, or you'll have to transpose the piano parts. My own view is she would do better to use the proper reed from the start too.

Personally, if you want to give your daughter a good grounding for playing the oboe, I favour a year of serious study on the recorder. This teaches good finger discipline, crisp articulation and controlled breathing (if done properly). All provide an excellent foundation for the oboe.

If she's really determined to start now, do check her dentist is happy her teeth are rooted securely, that she can reach the keys without over-stretching (can cause hand problems later on) and is taught by someone who knows what they're doing working with a very young player.

Hope it works out OK, whatever you decide.

Oh my... I have renewed respect for you who play it.

Thanks, Franchonard. I shall keep this post just in case I'm ever tempted to learn the oboe, so I remember what I am letting myself in for...

Keep meaning to say something along those lines although I doubt I would have expressed myself so eloquently! If she has fallen for the sound of an oboe, then do whatever it takes to prepare her to play it. Clarinet will always be "second best".

Thank you so much for your advice. It backs up my instinct that she may be a little young, and I'd hate to find her discouraged becasue she is too small or not strong enough to make good progress. I note your point about finding a specialist oboe teacher as well. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Thanks for your reply - it's so useful to have advice like this. My daughter's school only really caters for piano, flute and voice, and don't seem to have many informed opinions on anything else!
Thanks again

I know you have had some good replies already, but I wanted to tell you the experience of my daughter who was also adament that she wanted to play the oboe at around age 7.

I didn't want her to play the oboe at that age, as I think children are easily discouraged and I had heard that it was hard to play. I let her play the recorder at 7 and she got very good at it and was able to play the treble and the descant.

At age 9 (Year 5) she started the oboe because she was still very keen. She has been excellent at the oboe and is now at around grade 3 - 4, which, in a year with an instrument like the oboe, is very good (she is 10 now). She did her grade 2 at the end of last year and got a distinction, which was really encouraging for her.

The oboe is not like the clarinet or the flute, it is exhausting to play at first and she can wear herself out completely with it. I think it is the action of forcing the air down such a small aperture - I am not sure as I find it difficult to get a note out at all! If she gets tired, but still wants to play, she gets her recorder and plays that for a while. The music is the same for the descant, so it is no problem and the recorder is a lovely sounding instrument if played well.

I can understand that children want to play something a bit different, but at a very young age it is easy to become discouraged, and the oboe (althought it looks the same as a clarinet to the untrained eye) is certainly a difficult instrument. My daughter's teacher told her to practise for just 5 minutes a day at first and even that would wear her out!

Good luck!

Undercoat -

Thanks so much for this which pretty much backs up what I was trying to say from the teaching perspective. Good to hear someone else encouraging the recorder as a way forward and a great way into oboe playing.

Quite cheered me up

Many thanks and every success to your daughter on the oboe!

Sounds like your daughter is a very musical individual - well done to her for doing so well. Thanks for letting me know of your very similar situation. I have decided (and indeed discussed with my daughter) to keep her on the recorder for at least another year, and then see if she's still keen and them maybe have a try as she nears 9. I must admit I feel much more confident about this now as a result of the discussion on this site - fantastic, thanks everyone!