any alternate fingerings bar the top G fingering with the bell closed? i've tried fingers 5 and 7 down with a top G fingering but this is out of tune :S

As far as I know it is just a pain getting top F# but that is all there is!

An upwards slur from E, taking off the two left hand fingers and leaving just the thumb and the right hand fingers, works on most recorders. A tongued version is much more of a problem.

It can be done easily on the mollenhauer modern alto (and presumably on moeck's equivalent if they have one) using the fingering one normally associates with top G - top g then just uses 1-34-6 (plus pinched thumb of course)

The top-G-plus-knee fingering is the most in-tune on most recorders and works well for me. But if you're playing it in a fast passage you need to take care that you don't knock your teeth out!

exactly

the E slur doesnt come out at all on my moeck sadly. the 7th finger technique is ok on descants but risky on treble. what are you playing?

Well....

Dolmetsch makes a bell key if you're interested.

Dolmetsch Recorder Accesories

You'll need to scroll down to see the information on keys.

Hey don't do this to me guys....just when I was revving myself up for taking the plunge and getting a treble recorder, I read all this technical stuff about top F# and knee positions

I don't understand, (bell keys?? whatever next??) will I need top F# or is this just grade 8 stuff.

*Jane, having serious second thoughts*

Don't worry, Jane, you won't need it until next year at the earliest

The high F# is not particularly common. Don't worry about it until you come across one (I haven't yet).

Phew

lowest standard of music ive seen top F# is a Grade 8 study which was a Telemann Fantasia. dont worry as someone said they aren't common

please play recorder! we need more of them! preferably tenor downwards

You don't even use the offending note in the Grade 8 scales. They go up to top G or Ab I believe, but F# doesn't feature at all because it's thought too troublesome. I've only met it very occasionally in studies, or sonatas transcribed from other instruments. And there is a good, tuneful fingering - it just involves covering the hole at the end of the instrument with your knee!

That's funny. I have yet to find a baroque recorder on which it doesn't work. You can only lift the left hand fingers a short way from the recorder. I've always played Moecks. It works on yamaha plastic recorders too, and it worked on my vintage Arnold Dolmetsch, and I just tried it on a Mollenhauer Denner. There's one modern piece that is constantly being dragged out for grade 8 upwards that has a sort of little cadenza where top E - F sharp slurred is used, and the cadenza is followed by CBA BAG AGFsharp G - is it Robin Milford three airs? Not sure - haven't played it for years whatever it is.

I'm not sure what you mean about the seventh finger technique - AFAIK that only works on the Mollenhauer MODERN alto (not on any baroque instrument I have come across) and I seem to recall it also works on the Moeck Ehlert

For my LGSM I had to play a two octave C major scale on the treble, as well as two octaves of G and A major. They were great fun - not. i had to sit down to play them. Silly isn't it. It's a modern alto for me when I can spare the cash!!!

Liz

There are two top F#s in the Rubbra 'Coeurs Desoles'. I played the first with the stopped bell, and used the slurred technique with the second. I never felt completely secure with the slurred technique - it took a lot of practise to get it to come out, and even then it wasn't totally reliable.

What's the difference between a modern one and a baroque one, Liz?

Herbert Murrill Sonata for Treble Recorder, 2nd mvt!
I absolutely adore the first movement of that sonata - it's one of my all-time favourite treble pieces - a pity it's not a bit longer, though!

Sounds like another one for my shopping list!

O yes! That's one of the pieces I did for my LGSM. You'd think I'd remember that wouldn't you!!

Liz

It's quite a new development. It's a recorder with a different bore and with a double key. It gives a stronger bottom octave and a fully chromatic range to top C without needing to use the bell. Bliss pure and simple. What's more, with the Mollenhauer one at least, it can be obtained with a synthetic block which eliminates the swelling due to condensation.

For the rich, there'a an even more radical one called the Helder where you have an adjustable block, different wood blades which can be inserted in the windway prior to playing - I assume these change the tone but Mollenhauer doesn't make that terribly clear - and, drool, you can vary the dynamics whilst playing by adjusting the windway with your lips.

mollenhauer

Liz

OOooh, Sound really interesting.

I noticed a device on the Dolmetsch (I think) page that someone (Isha?) posted that had a lip key which makes the recorder play slightly sharp, so you can blow more softly and get a more convincing piano without going flat, if you see what I mean. Kind of hard to see how it worked though!

Thanks for the info - I thought I was just being dim

I used the knee technique for both and had no problems.
would love a bell key though!