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#16 zwhe

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:05

I teach several adults and actually find I spend more time planning and preparing for their lessons as they are usually able to work independently between lessons; in some cases they don't have lessons every week so they need even more work prepared. I do expect adults to set their own targets, but I also ask children to do this as well - they are more likely to achieve a target if they have set it for themselves. I see myself as more of a guide so I can show them the steps they need to take to achieve what they want. Targets range from things like "I want to play Jingle Bells in December" to "I want to do grade 5 at Easter".

As to learning from Youtube, I have several pupils who have self-taught in the past. Without exception we have had to go back to the beginning of a tutor book because they were missing essential basic information, such as the need to sit up straight or where a C is! I would say however that they have on average progressed much quicker than those who didn't play before, but they could have saved the frustration of having to start again if they had had some lessons in the first place.


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#17 Aquarelle

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 09:53

 

Adult students are not fillers for teachers schedule or easy money with little or no responsibility/accountability just bec there are no parents to answer to.

A good professional teacher who is really passionate about music would set some form of expectations on each and every student. There ought to be some form of meaningful goals and objectives.

 

In nearly 50 years of teaching I have never come across any fellow teacher who regarded adult students as an easy option. The general feelings I have heard expressed are that adults are often more difficult to teach successfully because they have much more complicated lives than children and very many different  kinds of expectations. Also they are usually more able to express what they require of a teacher than are children. They also have years of life experience behind them that children don't have. They sometimes have unrealistic expectations and can be disappointed when they are faced with this. I have heard some teachers say that they definitely prefer teaching adults as they enjoy this kind of challenge.

 

I respect and admire all that. I can't do it. I have tried on a few occasions but am better at teaching children so I don't  normally take on adults for instrumental teaching. On the other hand I have taken on and immensely enjoyed teaching adult English language classes. Each to his own - teachers and pupils.


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#18 adultpianist

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 11:17

 

 

Adult students are not fillers for teachers schedule or easy money with little or no responsibility/accountability just bec there are no parents to answer to.

A good professional teacher who is really passionate about music would set some form of expectations on each and every student. There ought to be some form of meaningful goals and objectives.

 

In nearly 50 years of teaching I have never come across any fellow teacher who regarded adult students as an easy option. The general feelings I have heard expressed are that adults are often more difficult to teach successfully because they have much more complicated lives than children and very many different  kinds of expectations. Also they are usually more able to express what they require of a teacher than are children. They also have years of life experience behind them that children don't have. They sometimes have unrealistic expectations and can be disappointed when they are faced with this. I have heard some teachers say that they definitely prefer teaching adults as they enjoy this kind of challenge.

 

I respect and admire all that. I can't do it. I have tried on a few occasions but am better at teaching children so I don't  normally take on adults for instrumental teaching. On the other hand I have taken on and immensely enjoyed teaching adult English language classes. Each to his own - teachers and pupils.

 

for the first time in my musical studies I was made to feel stupid for not grasping a technique.   I am a middle aged adult student and no teacher should treat someone of my age like they would a child/teenager.    I have a lot of other responsibilities including a full time job


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#19 LoneM

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 12:12

I did all but my piece and the teacher said it was ok not to do all of it because I work and am busy on other stuff.    Do all teachers who teach adults have this attitude when adults do not manage all their homework?  If I was a child there would have been a complaint to the parents that the child was not bothering to do the work required in between lessons and yet as an adult I can get away with it and it does not seem to matter.

 

for the first time in my musical studies I was made to feel stupid for not grasping a technique.   I am a middle aged adult student and no teacher should treat someone of my age like they would a child/teenager.    I have a lot of other responsibilities including a full time job

 

I don't really understand what's going on.  In your first post above you complain that your teacher is NOT treating you like a child,  then in the second you complain that they are.  Are you talking about the same lesson? In any case, try to be a bit more relaxed and flexible, and accept that your teachers are also human, make mistakes and have needs just like us all. Music should be for pleasure, and you are making good progress in spite of your challenging circumstances.


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#20 ten left thumbs

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 12:23

for the first time in my musical studies I was made to feel stupid for not grasping a technique.   I am a middle aged adult student and no teacher should treat someone of my age like they would a child/teenager.    I have a lot of other responsibilities including a full time job

 

 

 

 

 

In what way?

 

If you tell us what it's about, we have a chance of knowing. If you don't tell us what it's about, but instead ask a tangentially-related question, we have no chance of knowing what it's about, and every chance of saying something that will really irritate you. 

 

What is actually bothering you?


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#21 HelenVJ

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 13:29

Adultpianist, you are sounding quite annoyed with your teachers at the moment - as indeed you have done several times in the past. If you just want to have a general moan or rant, there's an Aaarrgghh thread for that purpose in the Cafe. But I am struggling to see what you hope to achieve by posting your various musical frustrations on the Teachers' Forum.
By the way, we aim to treat all our varied students, children, teenagers or adults, with equal humanity and respect. Age really doesn't come into it.


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#22 adultpianist

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 16:23

 

for the first time in my musical studies I was made to feel stupid for not grasping a technique.   I am a middle aged adult student and no teacher should treat someone of my age like they would a child/teenager.    I have a lot of other responsibilities including a full time job

 

 

 

 

 

In what way?

 

If you tell us what it's about, we have a chance of knowing. If you don't tell us what it's about, but instead ask a tangentially-related question, we have no chance of knowing what it's about, and every chance of saying something that will really irritate you. 

 

What is actually bothering you?

 

 

I was learning some flute notes and the fingering.   If you do not practice the fingering enough then you will forget how it goes for the next lesson and you will not be able to do it.  This happened to me and I was told "but we went through it in the lesson".   If I have a similar issue on the piano then my teacher never says oh but we did it last lesson meaning why is it that although we did it in the lesson and I showed you how to do it you cannot do it now.   All the teacher says never mind keep trying at home.   I think someone on here said you take a different approach with adults and you do not talk down to them as if they are naughty kids.  I'm sorry but something is beginning to go wrong with my flute lessons and yes I should do more practice which I will start to do but also I do not want a teacher to reprimand me like a child.   I help her make a living as a self employed music teacher.   My piano teacher has always said that some people are very good at playing an instrument but have no idea how to teach it

 

Someone also said on here that adult students sometimes dictate to the teacher what they want to get out of their lessons and I have just told my piano teacher I want to learn more theory so we are going to do a lot more theory.   I would never dream of saying to my flute teacher things I want to learn or get out of the lesson because I have the feeling she would tell me where to go and say she knows best how to teach me and she would make me feel what right to I have to tell her what to give me to do in the lessons,   I admit that I am a beginner flute player and not a beginner pianist so perhaps I can afford to dictate more about my piano journey because I have covered all the basics and can play grade 5 pieces. 

 

I attend flute masterclasses to get things out of it that I do not get at the lesson such as breathing exercises.  

 


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#23 ten left thumbs

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 21:00

Thankyou, AP, that is most helpful. 

 

I remember from previous threads the troubles you had had finding a good flute teacher for you. You still sound frustrated, and I am sorry to hear that.

 

I think, perhaps, you are too hung up on being an 'adult', or even thinking that these things are to do with you. Rather, different teachers are different. (For example, I never talk down to naughty children, even when they are actually... naughty children. At least I don't think so.) I think, perhaps you hear something, and you think that is universally true across the board (teachers treat children like this and adults like that...). 

 

Some teachers intuit how much consolidation a student needs. We did it last week. Have they got it? Yes? No? Just a bit? Yes as long as there isn't a key signature? You can say, yes, we did it last week, however I just don't remember, or at least I need more time to think. That is OK. Your teacher either accepts this or not, they respond to the situation, understand your need for consolidation, or they plough on with the lesson plan and leave you floundering and feeling inadequate.

 

(My violin teacher still hasn't worked out I don't know my finger numbers. I know my tones from my semitones. I can sight-sing my assignments. I know the structures of the modes. But I can't figure out which is finger 2. Shoot me, I'm a pianist! :) My teacher in other ways is great, so we are a good match.)

 

I'm sorry, but you have to work out what you can live with, what you can change, and what your chances are, again, of finding a flute-teacher that better suits your needs. At least your piano teacher is doing theory with you. Maybe you can live with this flute teacher, with all their imperfections, helping you with the technique you need, supplemented by the other courses. If you look for things to criticize them for, you will find them.


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#24 adultpianist

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 22:43

Thankyou, AP, that is most helpful. 

 

I remember from previous threads the troubles you had had finding a good flute teacher for you. You still sound frustrated, and I am sorry to hear that.

 

I think, perhaps, you are too hung up on being an 'adult', or even thinking that these things are to do with you. Rather, different teachers are different. (For example, I never talk down to naughty children, even when they are actually... naughty children. At least I don't think so.) I think, perhaps you hear something, and you think that is universally true across the board (teachers treat children like this and adults like that...). 

 

Some teachers intuit how much consolidation a student needs. We did it last week. Have they got it? Yes? No? Just a bit? Yes as long as there isn't a key signature? You can say, yes, we did it last week, however I just don't remember, or at least I need more time to think. That is OK. Your teacher either accepts this or not, they respond to the situation, understand your need for consolidation, or they plough on with the lesson plan and leave you floundering and feeling inadequate.

 

(My violin teacher still hasn't worked out I don't know my finger numbers. I know my tones from my semitones. I can sight-sing my assignments. I know the structures of the modes. But I can't figure out which is finger 2. Shoot me, I'm a pianist! smile.png My teacher in other ways is great, so we are a good match.)

 

I'm sorry, but you have to work out what you can live with, what you can change, and what your chances are, again, of finding a flute-teacher that better suits your needs. At least your piano teacher is doing theory with you. Maybe you can live with this flute teacher, with all their imperfections, helping you with the technique you need, supplemented by the other courses. If you look for things to criticize them for, you will find them.

 

Yes you are right.  I have a teacher who knows how to play well.   I do not think it is good to compare one teacher with another and I am not comparing my piano teacher with my flute teacher but I was comparing my flute teacher with another flute teacher who is a very highly experienced player and teacher who teaches pupils who want to audition for orchestras and her teaching is based on what they need to know to pass the orchestra audition for such orchestras as the London Symphony Orchestra.   This teacher also goes all over the world giving masterclasses and runs her own music academy.  This attached video shows the masterclass teacher being interviewed and I like her approach and style.   She is very hot on teaching breathing and the first time I went to one of her masterclasses she told us all to stand and practice breathing in and out whilst counting.  I was very impressed and went back and told my teacher but she never really took it on board so as this teacher does a lot of masterclasses in London, I go along and take from it what would be helpful to me because I do not get those things from my own teacher.  Perhaps it is because this masterclass teacher is older and more experienced I have no idea but all I know is that watching the way she is about basic fundamental stuff that any flute student should be told at any level is helpful to me and I cannot fathom why my own teacher is not teaching these things

 

 


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#25 paulara

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 07:45

There is a difference between being in charge/authority and being condescending. The teacher is supposed to be more knowlegeable and know how to help their students learn. Most people (child or adult students) can feel/tell whether the teacher cares and is anxious about their progress...or is just being mean and egotistical.

 

Teachers are not perfect and also have their good n bad days. So long i know my teachers care about my learning journey and progress, and i am learning something on most lessons and i enjoy going for my lessons, then they are good for me. 

 

If the teachers are indifferent whether i improve or not, then it doesn't matter whether they are nice or mean...

 

I do not totally agree that "age" should determine how the teacher should treat the student. Everyone should be treated with respect regardless of age. And respect is mutual. But If the student sees themselves as the teacher's client rather than their student, then it is not an "age" thing, it is a pride issue. 


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#26 Aquarelle

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 13:35

 

.

 

for the first time in my musical studies I was made to feel stupid for not grasping a technique.   I am a middle aged adult student and no teacher should treat someone of my age like they would a child/teenager.    I have a lot of other responsibilities including a full time job

 

I hope the implication here is not that it is OK to mistreat children and teenagers because they are inferior beings and that adults should be treated with more respect than children because they are more worthy of respect. There is no difference between the respect due to a child pupil and that due to an adult pupil. Perhaps that is not what was meant, but it could read like that. I do not make children feel stupid for not having grasped something in the lesson and I am sure that neither do other teachers on this forum. Making someone (child or adult) feel stupid for not having understood something would be the quickest way to make sure they never understood it. That is quite the opposite of what teaching is about. 


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#27 ten left thumbs

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 14:56

Adult pianist, you say you shouldn't compare one teacher to another (your words, not mine) and then you compare your regular flute teacher to this masterclass person. :) 

 

They are different people. I'm guessing they teach at different levels. Maybe you would rather have regular lessons with the masterclass person, but I'm guessing they are too busy globe-trotting to deal with regular lessons, and in any case, would be really expensive. 

 

You cannot turn your regular teacher into the masterclass person. What you need to work out, is whether your regular teacher is good enough for your needs, which will depend on your ability to 'shop around' in your area. What do you actually get from them? Regular support? Encouragement? Repertoire ideas you might not have come up with yourself? 


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#28 adultpianist

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 16:02

Adult pianist, you say you shouldn't compare one teacher to another (your words, not mine) and then you compare your regular flute teacher to this masterclass person. smile.png

 

They are different people. I'm guessing they teach at different levels. Maybe you would rather have regular lessons with the masterclass person, but I'm guessing they are too busy globe-trotting to deal with regular lessons, and in any case, would be really expensive. 

 

You cannot turn your regular teacher into the masterclass person. What you need to work out, is whether your regular teacher is good enough for your needs, which will depend on your ability to 'shop around' in your area. What do you actually get from them? Regular support? Encouragement? Repertoire ideas you might not have come up with yourself? 

 

 

What I get from the regular teacher is how to make a good sound on high notes.   When to tongue and when to breathe when there is no indication in the exercise. That is all for the moment.

.  Y

The masterclass person would be too expensive for me and too busy with other things to regularly teach someone from scratch.  The masterclass person in the video plays in an orchestra, gives solo performances, gives masterclasses, trains students who are auditioning for an orchestra and runs a music flute school.  That is an awful lot of stuff for someone to be doing and that is more than my regular teacher does.   You really have to be the crem de la crem of musicians to be able to undertake all that the masterclass person does.   Did you watch the video?  The woman in the video studied flute in the junior department of the Royal College of Music as a child and you really have to be good to do that


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#29 ten left thumbs

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 08:29

I remember from you many previous posts and threads, how frustrated you were about not being able to get high notes on the flute, and what you saw as your lack of progress in this area. Now that you're getting help with this, be glad.

 

Tonguing and breathing are important for all wind instruments. Again, be glad and pay attention to what you are learning.

 

If you want the crem de la crem as a regular teacher then you are going to have to seek them out, get to them, and pay them crem de la crem fees. 

 

No I didn't watch the video, I'm not really into flute. :) I do get that some teachers are more detailed than others, especially about technique.


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#30 zwhe

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 09:08

I had a look at the start of the video - it is really aimed at post-grade 8 players as much of that is simply not possible for beginners. Most beginner flutes can't do different tone colours anyway and have a limited dynamic range (I've tried most of my pupil's flutes at some point to check if its them or the flute that's having problems!). As a beginner, the most important things are breathing, a good clear sound on all the notes, some dynamic variance, articulation and getting the fingers to move independently (which shouldn't be an issue for you as you play the piano). Your teacher should also be checking your posture, but if it is correct, you won't know that's happening.

When you get more advanced, then you will be able to work on the things in the video, but until then its best to get a really good foundation to build on.


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