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#17866 Splog

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 10:39

Our nearest town has some very odd roadworks going on, which means serious disruption not only for commuters, but also for people going to the local sports centre and hospital. Someone posted on our village facebook page this morning warning people that this week the priority had changed on one stretch of roadworks, but that the sign from our end still said that we had priority. I thought, very clear, informative post, warning us to be careful. Someone then commented along the lines of "Why don't you just drive slower and with consideration for other road users?" How can people completely miss the point? blink.png


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#17867 Aquarelle

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Posted 29 January 2019 - 13:44

" How can people completely miss the point? blink.png

And in some countries people are demanding  more direct democracy via the iniquitous route of numerous referenda!


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#17868 Maizie

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 15:32

Mr Maizie and I both have a thing for notebooks.  We often pick them up as souvenirs, e.g. if we go to an exhibition and the exhibition shop has a notebook, we're almost certainly getting one.  Or we'll buy one another something with an apt cover for a present.  Love a good notebook...

Today I had cause to go to my 'notebook shelf', where it transpires that alongside the three notebooks in various stages of use, there are 22 waiting patiently for their turn.

No more souvenir buying for a while then!!


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#17869 Gran'piano

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Posted 13 February 2019 - 21:29

" How can people completely miss the point? :blink:

And in some countries people are demanding  more direct democracy via the iniquitous route of numerous referenda!
Numerous referenda can have their advantages though. In Switzerland, it often happens that when the required 50,000 signatures are collected, many people sign who are not really sure whether they want a change in this direction or not. When the wording of the law change is first printed out, loads of people say that they would vote for it. Then, with more publicity in the newspapers, radio, TV and leaflets, both sides of the question become clearer. Not only the 'let's change it' voices are heard. The disadvantages of the new idea become more obvious. The government may suggest an alternative law change. In the end, a lot of thought goes into the matter whether the new ruling is turned down or made law.
After a couple of results when new laws are made which don't really bring the hoped for result, the citizens are a bit more careful about getting carried away by a 'great idea'. Maybe the UK would have profited from this experience.
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#17870 Hedgehog

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Posted 14 February 2019 - 22:54

Mr Maizie and I both have a thing for notebooks.  We often pick them up as souvenirs, e.g. if we go to an exhibition and the exhibition shop has a notebook, we're almost certainly getting one.  Or we'll buy one another something with an apt cover for a present.  Love a good notebook...

Today I had cause to go to my 'notebook shelf', where it transpires that alongside the three notebooks in various stages of use, there are 22 waiting patiently for their turn.

No more souvenir buying for a while then!!

So glad that some-one else has a thing for notebooks, particularly some-one who I consider to be very IT savvy (having read various Maizie-posts over the years!). Long live the pen/pencil and paper! clap.gif


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#17871 Aquarelle

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Posted 15 February 2019 - 23:08

 

 

" How can people completely miss the point? blink.png

And in some countries people are demanding  more direct democracy via the iniquitous route of numerous referenda!
Numerous referenda can have their advantages though. In Switzerland, it often happens that when the required 50,000 signatures are collected, many people sign who are not really sure whether they want a change in this direction or not. When the wording of the law change is first printed out, loads of people say that they would vote for it. Then, with more publicity in the newspapers, radio, TV and leaflets, both sides of the question become clearer. Not only the 'let's change it' voices are heard. The disadvantages of the new idea become more obvious. The government may suggest an alternative law change. In the end, a lot of thought goes into the matter whether the new ruling is turned down or made law.
After a couple of results when new laws are made which don't really bring the hoped for result, the citizens are a bit more careful about getting carried away by a 'great idea'. Maybe the UK would have profited from this experience.

 

Is there a gutter press in Switzerland? Gran'piano the procedures you outline would give the gutter press in England a field day!  but on the other hand they might have encouraged a bit more thought and reasoning. It sounds as if the procedures in Switzerland are designed to give the people a greater say without actually throwing out representative democracy in favour of mob rule. So I suppose  I can only imagine that the UK might well have profited from similar safeguards. What actually happened was that David Cameron just chucked a simple question about a complex situation at a population under informed and easily manipulated. It remains to be seen if anything will ever have been learnt.

 

Here in France the Gilet Jaune movement is quite incoherent about what it wants. Some appear to want referendum procedures to be set up as part of a constitutional process. Others are just yelling that they want "a" referendum but they can't agree about what. And I doubt if many people  would answer the real question being asked anyway. For many people the "translation" of any question would be "Macron in or Macon out." - only to be repeated, predictably and boringly, with the same question concerning whoever might succeed him.


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#17872 Maizie

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 18:18

So glad that some-one else has a thing for notebooks, particularly some-one who I consider to be very IT savvy (having read various Maizie-posts over the years!). Long live the pen/pencil and paper! clap.gif

Inveterate list maker.  It's what notebooks mainly used to get used for ... a couple of years ago I swapped my A6 'in the handbag' diary for an A5 'on the desk' diary.  The left page is the days of the week, and the right page is ruled.  So anything that's for doing on a certain day, goes in the day slot on the left side; while the right side is for general 'stuff to do this week'.  Which means my diary is kind of my notebook/lists all in one.  I think this has caused the notebook pile up, because I'm no longer using them for my weekly/weekend/etc to do list.

But now I've realised I'm going to make a conscious effort to use the notebooks, I'm not a huge writer but it definitely has times when I find it very useful, so I will see if I can start doing that sort of thing again.


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#17873 elemimele

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 19:27

maybe we should just have referenda without worrying what they're about. Just a vote paper with "Yes" and "No". It reminds me of the comedy sketch about the Royal Society for Prevention. 


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#17874 Gran'piano

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 19:42

Actually you have to be very careful of 'yes' and 'no' as sometimes the wording is so complicated that it is quite easy to vote against the thing you intended to vote for.
Our recent vote in the canton about compulsory dog training courses for new owners of large dogs meant that if you thought the course should continue to be obligatory, you had to vote 'No'.

Re the rest - maybe having local votes on specific rulings makes us think a bit more before we write in the box. And from a government point of view, having several parties instead of just two main ones means that one is not for or against the other party on principle.

There is also far less power in the hands of any one person. Even the Bundespräsident changes every year. Mind you, by the time I remember the name of the present one, he or she is nearing the end of their term anyway.
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#17875 elemimele

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 19:54

I was being flippant: that's precisely what I meant: a referendum without any wording, which isn't for anything whatsoever, merely a ballot paper with yes and no written on it. It would be just as meaningful as the Brexit referendum, since no one had the foggiest idea what they were voting for, or against, then.


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#17876 mel2

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 22:18

I was being flippant: that's precisely what I meant: a referendum without any wording, which isn't for anything whatsoever, merely a ballot paper with yes and no written on it. It would be just as meaningful as the Brexit referendum, since no one had the foggiest idea what they were voting for, or against, then.


I'm tempted to launch into a spirited disagreement with you there, but will refrain simply because I don't want to reignite the shooting match that ran to about 18 pages on here a couple of years ago.
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#17877 elemimele

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 19:46

no worries mel2, I'm exhausted by the debate - almost everything must have been said that can be said. Thank you for not igniting, there's quite enough ignition in the world just now. Stay sane and human - I think I am getting too cynical and unpleasant in my old(er) age.


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#17878 Aquarelle

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 23:02

 

I was being flippant: that's precisely what I meant: a referendum without any wording, which isn't for anything whatsoever, merely a ballot paper with yes and no written on it. It would be just as meaningful as the Brexit referendum, since no one had the foggiest idea what they were voting for, or against, then.


I'm tempted to launch into a spirited disagreement with you there, but will refrain simply because I don't want to reignite the shooting match that ran to about 18 pages on here a couple of years ago.

 

Actually if we managed 18 pages without the thread being closed and with many of us (myself included) having very strong views on the subject then I think we ought to be congratulated on being a highly civilized and articulate community.


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#17879 OlderAussie

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 21:42

Re people demanding numerous referenda, I once saw a movie “The Rise and Rise of Michael Rimmer”. That put a bit of a damper on the idea...
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#17880 Misterioso

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 18:19

Following my acquisition of a furry thing at Christmas, I am now considering acquiring another furry thing. This one will wriggle! smile.png


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