17 replies to this topic

[ejw21]

I am struggling to get smooth arpeggios  - root and first inversion - in F# major and Eb minor. These are very rusty and I'm thinking about different fingerings. Any recommendations?

 

Thanks

[fsharpminor]

Ah the all black key ones !  Eb minor  root I think I just use 123 123 123 etc no 4 at all and of course 5 at the top 321 321 321 . I was given that in my ALCM Dip in 1963, as the first arpeggio !  F# major can be done the same..

1st Inversion  . 124124124 works better I think.   

[tulip21]

Black key arpeggios are tricky, and do lots of slow practice on them. To add to fsharpminor's comment, here's what I suggest for the left hand for both root position and 1st inversion: 542142142

[Latin pianist]

I prefer 5321 for LH F# major root and 5421 for first inversion.

[agricola]

If you have small hands you could re-arrange fingering to avoid the thumb turning on the largest interval -- for example RH root position ascending  2124 etc.  Also experiment with which part of the thumb contacts the key -- possibilities are to play rather flat on the thumb to get maximum contact or to grip the edge of the black key slightly as you turn.  Experiment with posture also -- sitting well back and 'sitting tall'  can improve arm action for all arpeggios.

[fsharpminor]

For some reason I said nothing about LH,  a senior moment !!  I concur with tulip21

[ejw21]

Thank you everyone! I don't have small hands. I have tried in the past something like 2124 but I didn't find it any easier! Lots of slow hands separate practise I think!

[Hedgehog]

Consciously aim for the middle of the key.

[EllieD]

Maybe you're just expressing a difficulty we all have when we get to the stage of learning arpeggios only on black keys ... pretty hard! At least there's only two. I like the ones with one or two black notes in best, much easier.

[Keron]

Maybe you're just expressing a difficulty we all have when we get to the stage of learning arpeggios only on black keys ... pretty hard! At least there's only two. I like the ones with one or two black notes in best, much easier.

Indeed, I find B major to be the easiest scale and arpeggio to play! 

[EllieD]

I know, crazy isn't it? They start you off with C Major in Grade 1 and actually that's quite a hard one when there's no black notes to remind you where you are! 

[HelenVJ]

Absolutely, Ellie! The first scales I tend to teach are E major and Db major, and we reduce #s and bs from there.  I don't usually teach C major at all, apart from contrary, in the first couple of years. Trinity have a supremely logical system of the number of sharps/flats corresponding to the grade - which certainly makes my life easier as a teacher. If they're doing Grade 4, it's E major and Ab major plus their rel minors  - simple! Also, I can tell my students that the scales get easier as they progress - always good.

[Latin pianist]

C Major is set for Initial grade 1. I unashamedly always teach it first.Never had any problems with doing that.

[HelenVJ]

Many teachers do, LP, and never try anything else. I did the same when I first started teaching, all those years ago.  But I've found using mainly black keys is more helpful for establishing a healthy technique in young players. I think it was Chopin who recommended starting with B major as a first scale, and there is plenty of research on the subject.  I teach B major slightly later, because of the irregular LH fingering - but well before C, G and F majors. I no longer take much notice of the order in which scales etc appear in the various exam syllabi (surprise ), where it's assumed that more black keys= harder, and fewer = easier. Ergonomically the reverse is true for pianists.

[Latin pianist]

I have probably been teaching longer than you, Helen. What I do do now is start scales a lot earlier than I used to.And that in itself helps technique. More than one way to skin a cat , though not sure that's PC anymore!