Jump to content


Photo

Recorder Thread!


  • Please log in to reply
2916 replies to this topic

#2911 elemimele

elemimele

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 544 posts
  • Member: 895612
    Joined: 17-July 16

Posted 18 December 2017 - 12:50

Maizie, thanks so much! I think I need to buy a lottery ticket, or see if I can find a friendly inter-library loan option. It looks like an amazing book.

 

Dotty-old-crotchet, Dan Laurin is so inspirational.

 

Flossie, what a good idea: maybe makers of better instruments should always recommend a matching cheap practice instrument! One reason I rarely use my (low-ish end) wooden recorder is because it's very different to my plastic recorders, and part of me won't put the effort into adapting to it, when I'm going to play it less anyway... a sort of self-reinforcing cycle.


  • 0

#2912 Maizie

Maizie

    Virtuoso

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6418 posts
  • Member: 9360
    Joined: 05-February 07
  • Bishop's Stortford, Hertfordshire

Posted 18 December 2017 - 13:01

Found a review of the book, published in a jstor journal (so everyone can see the first page, if you have jstor access you will be able to see the rest): https://www.jstor.or...an_tab_contents

 

I do have reading rights at a deposit library, so I could technically get hands on the book with a bit of travelling and effort, but wouldn't be able to take it home with me!  As far as I understand it, it's essentially the author's PhD thesis slightly adapted for publication to the wider world.  I'm guessing it had a small print run and there's an ilicit trade in them if you find the right audience.

 

Tangent: I have family members who wish to holiday in Greenland.  The 'Lonely Planet' published a guidebook to Greenland which is now out of print.  The occasional one appears on the secondhand market but the last time one did it went for one hundred and twenty pounds...so if you have a copy of that laying on a shelf, maybe someone will swap it for the Van Eyck book :D


  • 0

#2913 elemimele

elemimele

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 544 posts
  • Member: 895612
    Joined: 17-July 16

Posted 18 December 2017 - 14:07

The book looks remarkably cheap when compared to JStor, who want $42 for a download of a 4 page book-review about it!

For a moment I got all excited at your comment that it was basically her PhD thesis; coupled with her Dutch name, for a moment I thought it would be one of those lovely situations where it turns out friendly European universities have released huge numbers of PhD theses online, but sadly no.

I'll look for old copies of Lonely Planet guides, as-yet-undiscovered rare stamps, or other swappable items amongst the 25p library-sell-offs that populate my bookshelf...


  • 0

#2914 Dotty old crotchet

Dotty old crotchet

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Member: 898095
    Joined: 07-August 17

Posted 24 December 2017 - 07:40

I'd love to play some really modern recorder music ('classical' not pop!). Not sure where to look. Does anyone have any suggestions? No harder than grade 4 and no strange notation or sound effects (I can add my own, though not necessarily intentionally).

Maybe grade 4 is a bit low to start tackling the avant-garde, but I'm just elated my new teacher says I should be trying pieces at grade 3-4 now not 1-2 as I have been this year.

Added later: I should have said I'm looking for music for descant please.
  • 0

#2915 Dotty old crotchet

Dotty old crotchet

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Member: 898095
    Joined: 07-August 17

Posted 28 January 2018 - 10:10

Anyone have any experience with Suzuki recorder School series of books?

I know they are really for children and that the idea is to learn by ear first but the thing that intrigues me is that they introduce frequent alternations of different tonguing syllables very early on and have them written in under the notes T T D T TDTDTD T etc.

So, as someone who uses Doo pretty much all the time, and assumes that surely double tonguing and the like is a very long way off after grade 5 or something, I'm wondering if I should be doing this Suzuki style frequent changes of syllable?

Whenever I've tried alternating t&d I couldn't hear any difference and I've listened to little snippets of the suzuki CD and I can't hear any difference on that either. So what's the point?
  • 0

#2916 elemimele

elemimele

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 544 posts
  • Member: 895612
    Joined: 17-July 16

Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:42

since no one else has replied about tonguing syllables: there are two thoughts about this. On some occasions, a player might want to change the syllable in order to play a rapid series of articulated notes, but have no particular desire to change how the note sounds: they want a set of identical semiquavers or whatever, played rapidly. This leads to something like d-g-d-g-d-g-d-g- because it's easier to do repeat this pattern rapidly than d-d-d-d-d-d-d- (so there is a practical, behind-the-scenes reason for thinking about different syllables when the difference isn't actually audible).

But on other occasions a player might actually want to emphasise different syllables. If you almost spit a "t" into a recorder, with quite a lot of breath pressure, you will hear a transient hissy noisy noise at the start of the otherwise pure note. There are some lovely jazzy pieces performed by the Formosa recorder quartet where the bass recorder player is doing this (I think) to imitate a plucked double-bass. It's surprisingly effective. Some of the Baroque masters wrote about using different syllables, and where they should be used. I think Hotteterre wrote some stuff on tu-ru as strong and weak syllables. Where the syllables do sound different, then obviously it's important to use the emphatic syllables on the emphasised notes.

"T", spat, is very strong and aggressive (try it). A gentle dooo (probably the default for most people) is much milder, but "d" still cuts off the air-stream altogether, as does "g". But if you try other consonants like "r" and "l", they don't stop the airstream permanently: one can voice an r or l and sing a note while the tongue is in the middle of making that consonant, so they're very mild and rather unreliable for articulation.

One of the difficulties with the old masters is knowing what they meant by the different consonants. I'm not sure that I have enough appreciation of how Hotteterre would have pronounced an "r" to benefit from what he wrote. That level of playing needs more brain-cells and more time than I possess.

This subject really needs someone who knows what they're writing about...


  • 0

#2917 Dotty old crotchet

Dotty old crotchet

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Member: 898095
    Joined: 07-August 17

Posted 16 February 2018 - 10:22

Thank you, that's helpful. I think I probably need to practice hearing these tonguing differences rather than trying to understand them 'on paper'!
  • 0