19 replies to this topic

[binkyhk]

Hi can you tell me the notes that comprise these chords?

1. Bb(a triangle)
2.C min 7
3. E 7
4. F#7
5. G min 7

[AndyL]

1. Bb D F A
2. C Eb G Bb
3. E G# B D
4. F# A# C# E
5. G Bb D F

A triangle or delta signifies a major 7th chord - ie a major triad with an added major seventh above the root. "Min 7" means a minor 7th chord (a minor triad with an added minor 7th). Just a "7" indicates a dominant 7th (major triad with added minor 7th).

[TSax]

1. Bb D F A
2. C Eb G Bb
3. E G# B D
4. F# A# C# E
5. G Bb D F

A triangle or delta signifies a major 7th chord - ie a major triad with an added major seventh above the root. "Min 7" means a minor 7th chord (a minor triad with an added minor 7th). Just a "7" indicates a dominant 7th (major triad with added minor 7th).

I agree, mostly, with the caveat that the triangle can represent just a major triad without the 7th. It depends who's doing the charting and what their convention is. If you talk to a jazz pianist and tell them the context they'll let you know what they would play.

[AndyL]

You may well be correct that some people intend a delta to signify a simple major triad. I don't see how it makes any sense to do this, however. Why use "Bb▲" to signify a simple major triad, instead of just "Bb"?

Personally, I prefer "maj7" anyway. Triangles tend to just confuse people.

[binkyhk]

What about these ones?

C6
Cma7/B
C6/A
C7/G
F#o7
C7(b9)
D7 Sus

[AndyL]

C6 - C E G A
Cmaj7/B - this is just an inversion of C major 7, so C E G B, with B in the bass
C6/A - as above, C E G A, with A in the bass (this one's a bit strange since it seems unlikely that this will actually sound like a C6 rather than an A minor 7 if A is in the bass)
C7/G - C E G Bb, G in the bass
F#o7 - F# A C Eb
C7b9 - C E G Bb Db
D7sus - D G A C

[Violinia]

You may well be correct that some people intend a delta to signify a simple major triad. I don't see how it makes any sense to do this, however. Why use "Bb?" to signify a simple major triad, instead of just "Bb"?

Personally, I prefer "maj7" anyway. Triangles tend to just confuse people.

I promise you triangles don't confuse anyone in the jazz world - it's the accepted symbol for a major 7th. To write maj7 is just too unwieldy, hence the triangle.

[binkyhk]

C6 - C E G A
Cmaj7/B - this is just an inversion of C major 7, so C E G B, with B in the bass
C6/A - as above, C E G A, with A in the bass (this one's a bit strange since it seems unlikely that this will actually sound like a C6 rather than an A minor 7 if A is in the bass)
C7/G - C E G Bb, G in the bass
F#o7 - F# A C Eb
C7b9 - C E G Bb Db
D7sus - D G A C

does the A in C6 need to be resolved?
what is o in F#07?
What is D7 sus? I still don't understand why DGAC is suspension.

How do these chords call in technical terms?

Thanks

[AndyL]

I promise you triangles don't confuse anyone in the jazz world - it's the accepted symbol for a major 7th. To write maj7 is just too unwieldy, hence the triangle.

Not quite - the delta is one accepted symbol for a major 7th chord. "Maj7" is more common, in my experience. The Real Book uses "maj7", not the delta, as do most other fakebooks I've seen ...

does the A in C6 need to be resolved?
what is o in F#07?
What is D7 sus? I still don't understand why DGAC is suspension.

How do these chords call in technical terms?

Thanks

No, the A in C6 does not need to be resolved, it is an extra note which is added to the triad for colour.

The "o" in F#o7 actually should be a degree sign (small circle) and not the letter "o". The degree sign is the accepted symbol for a diminished chord - "F#o7" means "F sharp diminished seventh".

D7sus is really short for D7sus4, which means the chordal third is replaced by the fourth. The chord is called "suspended" because it was originally formed through suspensions, however in jazz it usually isn't (voice leading is less strict in jazz anyway).

6 chord - major triad plus 6th above root
o7 chord - 3 stacked minor thirds
7sus(4) chord - dominant 7th, with the third replaced by the fourth

[binkyhk]

I promise you triangles don't confuse anyone in the jazz world - it's the accepted symbol for a major 7th. To write maj7 is just too unwieldy, hence the triangle.

Not quite - the delta is one accepted symbol for a major 7th chord. "Maj7" is more common, in my experience. The Real Book uses "maj7", not the delta, as do most other fakebooks I've seen ...

does the A in C6 need to be resolved?
what is o in F#07?
What is D7 sus? I still don't understand why DGAC is suspension.

How do these chords call in technical terms?

Thanks

No, the A in C6 does not need to be resolved, it is an extra note which is added to the triad for colour.

The "o" in F#o7 actually should be a degree sign (small circle) and not the letter "o". The degree sign is the accepted symbol for a diminished chord - "F#o7" means "F sharp diminished seventh".

D7sus is really short for D7sus4, which means the chordal third is replaced by the fourth. The chord is called "suspended" because it was originally formed through suspensions, however in jazz it usually isn't (voice leading is less strict in jazz anyway).

6 chord - major triad plus 6th above root
o7 chord - 3 stacked minor thirds
7sus(4) chord - dominant 7th, with the third replaced by the fourth

for D7sus, which note is suspended and should it be resolved upwards or downloads?
Thanks

[Violinia]

for D7sus, which note is suspended and should it be resolved upwards or downloads?
Thanks

The 11th, which is also the 4th note above the tonic. It's called the 11th here because when the 7th is present, all the other extensions have to have their higher number alternatives, ie 9th for 2nd, 13th for 6th etc. If the chord doesn't contain the 7th, you could call it the 4th.

The 11th suspended will normally resolve down to the 10th, meaning the 3rd.

Haha I just noticed you said 'downloads' instead of 'downwards' - as computers relentlessly take us all over with their lingo....

[AndyL]

Yes, the fourth is the suspension (it's okay to call it a fourth rather than an eleventh because it's a suspension, not an extension as such). Although in many cases (in jazz) this "suspension" is not prepared and often doesn't resolve either, in which case you could think of it as an unresolved appogiatura, I suppose. If it does resolve it will resolve downwards. This chord is used a lot in jazz tunes as part of a tonal chord progression but is also a common chord in "modal" jazz tunes (eg Herbie Hancock's 'Maiden Voyage"), in which case it is treated as a static harmonic entity in its own right and there is no need for resolution.

Some common tonal contexts (key of C):
- G7sus4 G7 C
- G7sus4 C (no resolution of the "suspension", but a very common progression in jazz and pop anyway)
- G7sus4 Cmaj7 (C resolves downward to 7th of Cmaj7)

[Violinia]

But in jazz, the presence of the 7th in a chord turns a 4th into an 11th, honest! So G11 is just a convenient (and commonly used) way of describing a dominant chord with a 4th in it. Takes up less room on a chord chart apart from anything else!

[AndyL]

No - "C7sus" is short for "C7sus4", not "Csus11" (which wouldn't really make sense). I've never seen the symbol "7sus11" anywhere, not in any charts, fakebooks, or theory books. On the other hand, "7sus4" is very common (although it is often just "7sus"). The 4th in the chord is called a 4th and not an 11th because it is not an upper extension like a 9th in a 9th chord or an 11th in an 11th chord, it is a "suspension" - it replaces the 3rd.

It is true that many people interpret C11 to be a similar or identical chord to a C7sus4, but the reason for this is that if you include the third in a C11 (which you theoretically should) then the chord often sounds unusably dissonant because of the minor ninth interval between the third and the eleventh, and so the third is usually left out. Which means that C11 and C7sus4 are basically the same chord, and it doesn't really make much difference in practice whether you think of it as being an 11th (which would make the chord a C11) or a 4th (C7sus4).

But yes - "Csus" is definitely short for "Csus4", not "Csus11".

[binkyhk]

What about these chords?

Dmi7
G9
Gmi7
C7(b9)
Emi7/G
D7sus
G13
Cma7/B